Who would - after death - be more diapponted?

Originally posted by RJHinds
There must of been people like you at the time of the worldwide flood of Noah's time.

there must have been people like you during the worldwide flood of utnapishtim's time.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So 90% of humanity is destined to go to hell?

I don't know about this "destined" business (a funny word usage for a scientist), but the actual percentage is likely to be much higher than that.

Originally posted by vandervelde
1. an [b]atheist, who discovers that there is a God after all, so he is gonna face eternal suffering etc...

or

2. a religious person, who discovers that there is no God but only Nothingness?

Yeah, yeah, I know that the question contains logical (but who cares about logic when it comes to spirituality?!) objection: in the case of 2. a int Peter.

So there is a little bit of abstraction is needed in order to face the question.[/b]

The Agnostic; Halle/nice one😏

Obviously I mean He/She would be the least dissapointed😞

Originally posted by twhitehead
I take it then that if you knew a few more Muslims, you would convert to Islam?

[b]It's YOUR fault for not listening to the people He's sent to try to show you the way. I've told you countless times that Faith is the way.
Seriously, you think people are going to listen to someone who believes the deluded ramblings of the book of revelations are f ...[text shortened]... by God to try and avoid taking the blame for the torture that he plans to carry out?[/b]

I take it then that if you knew a few more Muslims, you would convert to Islam?

Okay, I'll give you this, you got me here, I was being flip in a way, trying to connect to the joke I told, like "How many motorboats have to come by before you finally decide to get in one?"

It's YOUR fault for not listening to the people He's sent to try to show you the way. I've told you countless times that Faith is the way.
Seriously, you think people are going to listen to someone who believes the deluded ramblings of the book of revelations are factual predictions? In your analogy, that's equivalent to God sending a crocodile then asking why you didn't take a ride on its back.

Faith is not a crocodile. Faith is the only way to God. Even if you're a Muslim.

.... secure in the knowledge that you must be right when any number of us have said, "No, you're wrong."
I am sure you have heard 'you are wrong' just as often as I have. The difference being that I can back up my assertion and you cant. You even admit being frightened of reading certain books because you fear that you are wrong.

I admit to being frightened when reading certain books because I believe they tell my fate, I do not remember ever being frightened of reading certain books because I fear I might be wrong in my Faith (I assume that's what you mean). I do not think I have ever feared I was wrong since I became a Christian. My Faith is as the mustard seed. I am NOT wrong. I admit I cannot produce evidence for my beliefs. But that in no way means I'm wrong.

This is WHY you have Free Will. So none can say, "How can God screw me like this?" The fact is, you screwed yourself by hardening your heart to Him.
So its all a plan by God to try and avoid taking the blame for the torture that he plans to carry out?

No. It's all a plan by God to SAVE us from the fate that awaits us as sinners. Those who choose to accept the gift of Christ's redemptive sacrifice will be saved. Those who reject the gift will not be saved because they have not received redemption for their sin and sin is abhorrent to God. It is THEIR choice. And, btw, I do not believe in an "eternal torture of pain" for those who refuse redemption. I believe they'll just die another "second death" and be destroyed forever. Yes, I know what many here have said about the "lake of fire", etc. I'm just not fully on board with that. It seems... excessive.

Originally posted by Suzianne

I am NOT wrong. I admit I cannot produce evidence for my beliefs. But that in no way means I'm wrong.

St Augustine would endorse your position fully and most Christian theologians have been as unimpressed as atheists with the rational arguments in favour of God's existence produced since St Jerome. You also fit very well with the research of William James into "The Varieties of Religious Experience." He found that most people arrive at faith first and look for supporting evidence only afterwards.

Yes, I know what many here have said about the "lake of fire", etc. I'm just not fully on board with that. It seems... excessive.

Again like most people, you are prepared to accept much of what is presented to you as a belief system, but you draw your own lines. I suppose I arrived at Atheism by drawing an awful lot more lines than you have done.

If faith does not require - and does not come before - a belief system however, then I am sometimes very puzzled by the lengths people will go to to avoid questioning the prescribed beliefs. After all, people have had the experience of "being saved" in many cultures and over many periods of history. In each case, they have subsequently received very different guidance about what, specifically, they are now required to start believing. Even if we decide that the "being saved" experience is the same or very close to the same (and on what grounds do we dispute this for some reports and not for others?) I do not see why it has to be quite so easily exploited by whichever opportunist happens to have a handy set of scriptures available at that time and place.

Originally posted by Suzianne
.... No. It's all a plan by God to SAVE us from the fate that awaits us as sinners. Those who choose to accept the gift of Christ's redemptive sacrifice will be saved. Those who reject the gift will not be saved because they have not received redemption for their sin and sin is abhorrent to God. It is THEIR choice. And, btw, I do not believe in an "ete ...[text shortened]... e "lake of fire", etc. I'm just not fully on board with that. It seems... excessive.

Sin means to do [or sometimes think] something that offends god or goes against gods wishes/commandments.

Hell (or not-heaven whatever that may be) is punishment for sin.

Everyone is apparently born with 'sin' because some fictional people 'thousands' of years ago disobeyed god and
ate a magic fruit.

So to avoid hell (not-heaven) everyone has to kiss gods ass and beg for forgiveness for not doing everything god
wants (or for being born with the sin of imaginary people thousands of years ago) in the hope that if we butter up
god enough he will allow us into heaven where we can spend the rest of eternity... yes you guessed it, sucking up
to god.


Sin has nothing to do with morality, because things are not moral or immoral because god says so, and some things that
are supposedly sins are not immoral, and some sins ARE immoral... Yet more are just stupid and irrelevant.

The very idea that we should have to suck up to god and beg for forgiveness for disobeying the commands of a god who can't
even be bothered to prove his own existence or clearly explain and define his wishes (you want to see the number of
different interpretations of the bible?) is asinine.

If god exists as described then god is an egomaniac monster...

If going to heaven requires and entails sucking up to god then count me out.



However THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE.

We have no souls, we are just chemicals obeying the laws of physics.

And faith based belief is immoral, something you have still yet to address.



To claim to know anything (including that you are 'right'😉 requires that you be able to demonstrate that knowledge to others.
To be able to prove it.


No faith based belief can ever be proven, and thus can never be known.

Originally posted by Suzianne

I take it then that if you knew a few more Muslims, you would convert to Islam?

Okay, I'll give you this, you got me here, I was being flip in a way, trying to connect to the joke I told, like "How many motorboats have to come by before you finally decide to get in one?"
[quote][b]It's YOUR fault for not listening to the people He's sent to t etc. I'm just not fully on board with that. It seems... excessive.[/b]

"Take this free gift - or else I'll kill you!"