08 Mar 13
Some things are necessarily brute facts, ie there is no cause, and thus there cannot be an answer to a why question. The existence of something rather than nothing is the ultimate brute fact.
Note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Even a religious person must admit that if God exists, then it is a brute fact that he exists.
08 Mar 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf there was nothing we would not be here to observe the nothing. However, just because we are here to observe the something should not be taken as evidence of the specialness of us or the something. Sometimes things just are.
Some things are necessarily brute facts, ie there is no cause, and thus there cannot be an answer to a why question. The existence of something rather than nothing is the ultimate brute fact.
Note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Even a religious person must admit that if God exists, then it is a brute fact that he exists.
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Some things are necessarily brute facts, ie there is no cause, and thus there cannot be an answer to a why question. The existence of something rather than nothing is the ultimate brute fact.
Note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Even a religious person must admit that if God exists, then it is a brute fact that he exists.
Why can it not also be a brute fact that everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence ?
Why can it not be a "brute fact" that there is an uncaused, unbegun Cause of all things which began to exist ?
It seems that you cannot make the brute fact argument only favor one possibility. Why can it not be a brute fact that nothing exists for no reason except a final eternal and uncreated Source of everything else that exists ?
Then we can still do Science up until we run into an ultimate brute fact.
Ie. search for causes of many things which indeed are caused.
08 Mar 13
1 edit
Originally posted by sonship
[quote] Some things are necessarily brute facts, ie there is no cause, and thus there cannot be an answer to a why question. The existence of something rather than nothing is the ultimate brute fact.
Note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Even a religious person must admit that if God exists, then it is a brute fact that he exists. [/qu into an ultimate brute fact.
Ie. search for causes of many things which indeed are caused.
08 Mar 13
Originally posted by sonshipI am sure it could. Of course there is no good reason to think it is, but nothing to my knowledge rules it out.
Why can it not also be a brute fact that everything that [b]begins to exist has a cause for its existence ? [/b]
Why can it not be a "brute fact" that there is an uncaused, unbegun Cause of all things which began to exist ?
I am sure it could be.
It seems that you cannot make the brute fact argument only favor one possibility.
I never argued otherwise.
Why can it not be a brute fact that nothing exists for no reason except a final eternal and uncreated Source of everything else that exists ?
It could be.
Then we can still do Science up until we run into an ultimate brute fact.
Ie. search for causes of many things which indeed are caused.
I don't see why not. I really don't see what you point is though.
Of course all your possible brute facts are just that 'possible', but not particularly likely. If anything the evidence is very strongly against them. Quantum mechanics strongly suggests that causation is not a particularly hard and fast rule.
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08 Mar 13
Originally posted by sonshipwould i be correct in saying you believe the 'cause' of man is to be united with god in eternity?
[quote] Some things are necessarily brute facts, ie there is no cause, and thus there cannot be an answer to a why question. The existence of something rather than nothing is the ultimate brute fact.
Note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Even a religious person must admit that if God exists, then it is a brute fact that he exists. [/qu ...[text shortened]... into an ultimate brute fact.
Ie. search for causes of many things which indeed are caused.
if so, is the cause we currently have the same cause that adam had before the fall?
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08 Mar 13
I am sure it could. Of course there is no good reason to think it is, but nothing to my knowledge rules it out.
I think there is no really good reason why it shouldn't be so.
I think philosopher J P Moreland explains that very well.
I am sure it could be.
I think so also.
Of course all your possible brute facts are just that 'possible', but not particularly likely. If anything the evidence is very strongly against them. Quantum mechanics strongly suggests that causation is not a particularly hard and fast rule.
I don't think quantum mechanics is going to rescue us from assuming causation in the natural world. It may help us find that there are causes which are too tiny or too quick for us to be able to detect or measure with our present day tools.
And if that is the case, we'll just have to accept that.
08 Mar 13
1 edit
Originally posted by OdBodLike your play of mind, even though the location of the sandbox is way out of town in the tulies. Seriously, you along with a few of your supporters, continue searching and sifting. You remind me of myself in more ways than I had previously realized. Stay with it; stay safe; be well. (gb)
It is of course possible that nothing never was.
http://www.waywordradio.org/tulies_1/
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would i be correct in saying you believe the 'cause' of man is to be united with god in eternity?
I would say that that union of the human and the divine is why God created man.
Jesus Christ - the Firstborn Son of God.
if so, is the cause we currently have the same cause that adam had before the fall?
Yes.
This mingling is from out of man's voluntary choice. This is why Adam was placed before the tree of life. He had the free choice to partake of this divine and eternal life which is God Himself.