Sonship the other day you accused FMF of circular logic and then asked him to come with an example of his own circular logic. That exchange was stupid, but this thread is moron level 10.
I don’t believe in hell or eternal suffering.
I think you are mentally ill for thinking and believing that eternal suffering is “god’s perfect judgment”, as you once said.
Tell you what…I’ve got an invisible unicorn, why don’t you give me one good reason for letting you have a ride on it.
Jeez.
15 Apr 22
@sonship saidOK Son let's play the game.
@medullah
Suppose you are wrong?
Suppose on some details you are right but not so on ALL details?
Let's say there are no pitchforks or torturing demons assisting your discomfort.
Let's say Dante's description is totally unrepresentative.
You should be exempt from such a fate BECAUSE ___________________________?
Rule no 14: never start defending yourself if you haven't been attacked.
So you tell me what the crioteria is for being sent to this fabled imaginary place and I can then tell you why I shouldn't?
Hope that you are well by the way, it's been a while.
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Suppose you are wrong?
Suppose on some details you are right but not so on ALL details?
Let's say there are no pitchforks or torturing demons assisting your discomfort.
Let's say Dante's description is totally unrepresentative.
You should be exempt from such a fate BECAUSE ___________________________?
OK Son let's play the game
Rule no 14: never start defending yourself if you haven't been attacked.
So you tell me what the crioteria is for being sent to this fabled imaginary place and I can then tell you why I shouldn't?
I am fine thanks.
I think you are trying to shift the matter to avoid the burden of explaining why you should be exempt from any eternal punishment.
You seem to be arguing that the scenario is so absurd, so fable like that the very question does not have to be answered. That it is based on a fable premise is your infallibly true concept.
Suppose you are wrong?
You are saying that you could not possibly be wrong.
Eternal judgment is a fable . . . period.
Since it is impossible for the scenario to not be a fable, to your infallible correct evaluation, the burden should be shifted to convince you eternal punishment could not be a fable.
To the question:
You should be exempt from such a fate BECAUSE ___________________________?
You are saying the question is illegitimate and need not be addressed until
the question -
Suppose you are wrong?
is proved by me that there could be an error in your disbelief in the possibility.
You CANNOT be wrong that the fable would turn out to true in any regard.
You have changed whole issue to put the burden on me to convince you that you could possibly me wrong about a fable could have any truth to it. You will not consider -
Suppose you are wrong?
Your position is that wrongness is impossible with you about it.
So the question is meaningless, does not have to be answered until you're
convinced that you could be wrong about Christ's teaching being a fable.
In essence, this is Ie Convince me that I could be wrong able this fable and THEN I will promise explain.
You should be exempt from such a fate BECAUSE ___________________________?
It is a fable. You could not possibly be wrong about eternal punishment being a fable. For this reason the burden is on someone else to convince you the untrue fabled nature of eternal punishment in any regard could wrong.
Suppose you are wrong?
This is impossible to you.
So you need not answer why you should be exempt from such a fate.
Why don't you just say it is impossible for you to undergo eternal punishment because it is impossible to experience a fable?
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16 Apr 22
6 edits
Divegeester,
I don’t believe in hell or eternal suffering.
I think you are mentally ill for thinking and believing that eternal suffering is “god’s perfect judgment”, as you once said.
Tell you what…I’ve got an invisible unicorn, why don’t you give me one good reason for letting you have a ride on it.
You're reply is in the same way as medullah's.
What I hear you both saying in different words is
"The reason I should be exempt from any eternal punishment is because it is impossible to be subject to a fable."
Why I SHOULDN'T go to Hell
You shouldn't go because no one should go to an impossible fable on par with unicorn ride belief. There is exemption because of hateful absurdity of the scenario in any regard.
17 Apr 22
@sonship saidOk sonship, if you are unhappy with my responses, fair enough.
Divegeester,
Why I SHOULDN'T go to Hell
You shouldn't go because no one should go to an impossible fable on par with unicorn ride belief. There is exemption because of hateful absurdity of the scenario in any regard.
Why don’t YOU tell me why a SHOULD go to hell?
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17 Apr 22
4 edits
Why don’t YOU tell me why a SHOULD go to hell?
I don't want you to do that or think you should.
If you are in Christ it would be unrighteous for God to eternally punish you. And righteousness is the foundation of His throne. If God beome unrighteous His authority collapses to the horror of what that could possibly mean to all the universe and existence.
He is FAITHFUL and He is RIGHTEOUS to forgive us all our sins if we confess our need for their eradication through Christ's redemption. RIght?
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 9,10)
God must be FAITHFUL to His Son and to His word.
God cannot but be RIGHTEOUS.
Whether He likes you or does not like you God must be righteous as it is foundation of His eternal authority.
Psalm 89:14
New King James Version
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face.
New American Standard Bible
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before You.
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17 Apr 22
If you put the question to me Why I SHIULDN'T go to Hell or (the lake of fire) I would include in my reply:
Because I stand on Christ as my merit. Because of God I have been out into Christ. And eternal judgment upon me was carried out by substitution on the Son of God on Calvary at Galgotha. If God renighs on His promise He would be unrighteous and unfaithful RE_JUDGE me eternally once His Son has paid my debt IN FULL.
I would not argue any other argument.
I would say "Lord God I stand before You clothed in the blood of Christ, my only justification, my only merit, my only foundation for eternal redemption. You must be faithful and righteous according to Your nature, according to justice and righteousness are the foundation of Your throne."
I SHOULDN'T go to the lake of fire because I am in Christ who has taken upon Him my judgement for sin and has been made by God, HImself, as my eternal righteousness of God in Him.
Second Corinthians 5:21
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might be come THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in Him."
17 Apr 22
1 edit
@sonship saidI think the concept of hell is so ridiculously morally and logically broken that I struggle to take this thread with anymore than a big pinch of salt.
@divegeester
Why don’t YOU tell me why a SHOULD go to hell?
I don't want you to do that or think you should.
17 Apr 22
@sonship saidMIGHT. Know what 'might' means? You use these passages as if it is CERTAIN. You are certain. You are not certain. All Christians have a HOPE of eternal life.
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might be come THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in Him."
Paul explains that there is a path that the righteous Christian takes to become certain and be assured of his place in the kingdom of God. You have repeatedly ignored the warning of Paul and instead you promote a ridiculous nonsensical version of the bible where not even God can punish and destroy the Christian for their sins.
According to Christ people like you that promote these false teachings and who discourage good works and righteousness are first in line for damnation.
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17 Apr 22
5 edits
I think the concept of hell is so ridiculously morally and logically broken that I struggle to take this thread with anymore than a big pinch of salt.
The problem with that view is that Jesus took it seriously.
And to try to demonstrate that He did not requires far more work than to just acknowledge that He took it seriously.
But, if you can ever demonstrate that after the writing of the New Testament mean people invented words to place into the mouth of Jesus and add TO the New Testament documents afterwards - I would be willing to consider your evidence.
Christ took the need for eternal redemption and His DEATH to accomplish that end SERIOUSLY .
(Bear with the caps.)
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17 Apr 22
1 edit
I don't see Him giggling.
I don't see Him chuckling with the "rediculousness" of His mission from His Father to give His life as a ransom for many.
YOU seem to detect perhaps some "tongue-in-cheek" humourous ridiculousness about it in Him. I see none.
Mark 10:45 - " For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life as a eransom for many."
"Give His life as a ransom for many" - is there any joke to this?
"Again, going away a second time, He prayed, saying, My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done." (Matt. 26:42)
What was serious to the Son of God you appear to want to view as rediculous.
17 Apr 22
@sonship saidYour version of Jesus may have done; my Jesus doesn’t entertain thoughts of genocide and eternal torture.
@divegeester
The problem with that view is that Jesus took it seriously.
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17 Apr 22
6 edits
my Jesus doesn’t entertain thoughts of genocide and eternal torture.
1.) What do you mean by genocide?
I think of genocide as trying to eliminate an entire race or nationality.
But Revelation shows people from "EVERY NATION" will be saved.
"After these things I saw, and behold, there was a great multitude which no one could number, out of every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb . . . and they cry with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb." (Rev. 7:9,10)
So if the saved come from "every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" why should I believe Christ has genocidally eliminated a particular ethinic group or nation totally?
2.) How is Jesus Christ Savior of the world guilty of genocide?
17 Apr 22
1 edit
@sonship saidI’m not interested in chasing your red herrings sonship.
@divegeester
What do you mean by genocide?
You know what I believe and this thread idea of yours is stupid.
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17 Apr 22
3 edits
@divegeester
"Genocide" from Wikapedia:
Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people — usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group — in whole or in part. Raphael Lemkin coined the term in 1944,[1][2] combining the Greek word γένος (genos, "race, people" ) with the Latin suffix -caedo ("act of killing" ).[3]
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.[4][5][6][7]
Revelation 20:15 only says that anyone whose name was not written in the book of life perished.
Nothing about them going there specifically because of belonging to a certain nationality or ethnic group.
Also, 20:15 leaves somewhat unknown ALL the ways in which someone may have their name entered into "the book of life" .
You can opt out by "argument from boredom" if you wish.
You can opt for a hit and run insult to God if it serves you.
But as a careful student of Scripture I have to consider these things before injesting what might be slanderous lies against God.