13 Apr 05
Originally posted by wibFair enough (not the freaks bit!).
So that leads us back to two theories for the cause:
Power
Previously molested as children (maybe both are connected)
Or perhaps they're just freaks who got into the Catholic Church with every intention of faking their way through the Christian stuff just so they can get their grimey paws on some young stuff?
13 Apr 05
1 edit
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlWhy do you think he's a whole different story? He's a molester, isn't he? Do you have any reason to believe that the factors pointed out by wib (power and childhood trauma) do not apply to MJ?
michael jackson is a whole different story. How can you put him in the category with most molesters? he lives in a fantasy of his opwn creation which is supported by all the people whom he pays.
Or, for that matter, the vast majority of pedophiles in the US are married men. The proportion of priests committing pedophilia is the same as the general population (around 2% ).
Clearly, as I said before, the empirical evidence does not support your claim that celibacy is at the root of pedophilic priests.
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo. I think they should be able to live like any other human being. I don't think being celibate makes you a better religious leader at all. It just makes you frustrated.
Don't you think celibate priests should hold themselves to a higher standard than the typical married man when it comes to leading a Christian life?
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by wibI just finished helping a friend finish her disitation on child abuse, so I'll answer what I learnt there, although my knowledge is limited to my friends research:
So that leads us back to two theories for the cause:
Power
Previously molested as children (maybe both are connected)
Or perhaps they're just freaks who got into the Catholic Church with every intention of faking their way through the Christian stuff just so they can get their grimey paws on some young stuff?
abuse leads to abuse: partially correct, but not as people commonly think. If a child is sexually abused they are much more likely to become criminals in adulthood, but no necessarily sexual criminals. In fact, sexually abused children are more likely to grow into violent offenders. Child neglect is as likely to produce a adult pedophile as child sexual abuse.
child sexual abuse is about power: in some cases, but by no means not all. "Power" abusers are akin to rapists, where the 'kick' they get is in hurting the victim rather than being strictly sexual. Kids are easier to dominate so the kick is greater. This group tend to have violent tendancies as well.
There are other pedophiles who feel that they love children and that there is nothing wrong with this. It's amazing, but they will argue blind that they aren't doing anything wrong! This group have often had bad experiences of adult relationships as a child, either their own (eg being beaten as a child, or abused themselves) or commonly someone elses (witnessing inter-parental violence) which has left them unable to have adult relationships leaving them seaking to fill the gap with children. I don't know what you'd class this group except sick, in every sense.
As far as priests go, if you were attracted to children you might want to run away to an institution that encouraged celebacy too? Maybe the initial hope is that the church & God would be their refuge to resist temptation?
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by wibIt should be pointed out that most victims of abuse do not perpetrate abuse themselves in later life.
So that leads us back to two theories for the cause:
Power
Previously molested as children (maybe both are connected)
Or perhaps they're just freaks who got into the Catholic Church with every intention of faking their way through the Christian stuff just so they can get their grimey paws on some young stuff?
I suspect that celibacy is not a direct cause in itself, but that the regressive males mentionned in lucifershammer's post enter the priesthood as an 'honourable' way of avoiding the whole issue. Then they get access to children and an escalation of inappropriate behaviour starts. Does anyone know what the rate of child molestation is among clergy from other denominations such as the Anglican church where there's no celibacy requirement?
13 Apr 05
Here's a question no one has addressed, why are the molestations homosexual in nature? How come you don't hear of girls being molested by priests?
My theory is that a lot of these old priests are, of course, gay. They've known it all along but being Catholic they feel extreme guilt over their natural desires. So what do they do? They become priests to alleviate the guilt.
One thing leads to another. These priests find themselves able to manipulate children and give in to the flesh. Ask yourselves this, what can the Church do to stop crimes like this?
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by darvlayThe church needs to implement more counseling for priests. Children also need to be made aware of the problem and taught to say no and report the abuse.
Here's a question no one has addressed, why are the molestations homosexual in nature? How come you don't hear of girls being molested by priests?
My theory is that a lot of these old priests are, of course, gay. They've known it all along but being Catholic they feel extreme guilt over their natural desires. So what do they do? They become pries ...[text shortened]... and give in to the flesh. Ask yourselves this, what can the Church do to stop crimes like this?
The church should also allow priests to marry. That includes gay priests.
13 Apr 05
1 edit
Originally posted by darvlayI've heard a few other people, notably a conservative columnist named Ross Mackenzie, make the connection between pedohilia in the priesthood and homosexuality. He of course says it's a homosexual problem and that's the root of it.
Here's a question no one has addressed, why are the molestations homosexual in nature? How come you don't hear of girls being molested by priests?
My theory is that a lot of these old priests are, of course, gay. They've known it ...[text shortened]... yourselves this, what can the Church do to stop crimes like this?
I don't know Darv. You may have a pretty good theory there about guilt from being gay. It's as good as any.
As for the overall picture of this mess from my point of view - I understand there are bad apples everywhere and in every profession. What always really angered me was the cover up by the powers that be in the Catholic Church. Those men should be publically flogged by the parent of every child that has ever been molested by a priest. Then nailed on a cross and allowed to rot.
EDIT: Good posts by Deepthought and Belgianfreak too.
13 Apr 05
1 edit
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlEDG has hit the nail on the head. I agree wholeheartedly!
The church should also allow priests to marry. That includes gay priests.
EDIT - Unfortunately this will never happen so we might as well forget it. 😠Stupid fake God in his ivory tower.
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by darvlayWhile I agree, you must realise that will never happen in our lifetimes. My hope is that the ignorance and intolerance of the Catholic church on these matters is exactly what will bring about their downfall.
EDG has hit the nail on the head. I agree wholeheartedly!
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by wibLOL. Whoa, I just edited my post at the same time...
While I agree, you must realise that will never happen in our lifetimes. My hope is that the ignorance and intolerance of the Catholic church on these matters is exactly what will bring about their downfall.
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtI think they're about the same - 2% (which is the US average, btw).
It should be pointed out that most victims of abuse do not perpetrate abuse themselves in later life.
I suspect that celibacy is not a direct cause in itself, but that the regressive males mentionned in lucifershammer's post enter the priesthood as an 'honourable' way of avoiding the whole issue. Then they get access to children and an escalation ...[text shortened]... y from other denominations such as the Anglican church where there's no celibacy requirement?
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlLMAO!
Children also need to be made aware of the problem and taught to say no
This isn't the war on drugs. It's not like priests are tempting them, persuading them, or giving them a choice, and that children could avoid it if they could only muster the willpower.
The solution certainly lies elsewhere. Upon the shoulders of children is the very last place any blame should lie.
It is not the child's responsibility to say No, nor does saying No accomplish anything.
13 Apr 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWhile I agree with you 100%, there is something we could teach the kids, if necessary; that more powerful than "No" are the words "I'll Tell"...
LMAO!
This isn't the war on drugs. It's not like priests are tempting them, persuading them, or giving them a choice, and that children could avoid it if they could only muster the willpower.
The solution certainly lies elsewhere. Upon the shoulders of children is the very last place any blame should lie.
It is not the child's responsibility to say No, nor does saying No accomplish anything.
13 Apr 05
1 edit
Perhaps the majority of the blame should be placed upon the Church? Much like sexual harrassment cases in the workplace in the US, nothing changed until corporations were held responsible for the actions of employees. The harrasser couldn't just be hung out to dry all by himself. The executive managers and share holders of the corporation got hit where it hurt them the most - the bank account. That got their attention.
That's happening now in the Church. Good. But what about going forward? Is suing the Church going to prevent more priests from molesting? Many child molesters have admitted that they "can't help it" and that they can't stop.