Originally posted by @js357I think it Hell is the most horrible scary thing imaginable bar none. As far as keeping us
Let’s try it another way. How do you feel to think about a supernaturally keeping you in a state of consciousness existence in order to burn you alive for eternity.
in a state of consciousness supernaturally, that may simply be the natural state of human
life period. So where life ends up is either going to be experiencing the love of God in one
place, or the wrath of God in another, either place the conscious state is just what life was
designed to have.
Originally posted by @divegeesterSo what is your scriptural basis to counter all of the references to hell?
Do you find it as strange as I do that while I unequivocally and pretty much immediately answer every question put to me...my questions are either dodged or obfuscated?
Maybe if you believe in God but not in the Bible, Christianity is not for you.
Originally posted by @philokaliaVery good question.
So what is your scriptural basis to counter all of the references to hell?
Maybe if you believe in God but not in the Bible, Christianity is not for you.
While I myself believe in God, Jesus and Holy Spirit, I find some scripture hard to process regarding hell.
Dive has said in the past that he would discard the New Testament before he believes in scriptures about hell.
I'm curious about how he will respond.
Originally posted by @divegeesterWhy not read the Bible?
It’s both. If you tell me before the Lord that your doctrines on the trinity and eternal suffering are salvation based issues if I reject them then I promise I will fully research them both again and also sincerely pray about them. That’s the plea.
But you won’t, because you don’t believe it yourself. Instead you hem and haw and obfuscate because yo ...[text shortened]... ed teachings and are therefore not critical. That’s the debating point.
So...what’s it to be?
Romans 10:9 New International Version (NIV)
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
What does that mean to you?
Let me guess, you would use a little "l' verses a big "L".
And then comes another troubling question, saved from what?
25 Jun 18
Originally posted by @chaney3Right.
Very good question.
While I myself believe in God, Jesus and Holy Spirit, I find some scripture hard to process regarding hell.
Dive has said in the past that he would discard the New Testament before he believes in scriptures about hell.
I'm curious about how he will respond.
I think most humans of our time would gladly opt for some kind of near universal purgatory that purifies our souls before going to heaven, and an annihilationist hell.
But... these positions are not overwhelmingly supported.
If you believe in Christ, you must rely on the only known reliable source for his teachings... and if you do not rely on that, what are you really doing? Just cherrypicking things.
I appreciate anyone who is ready to follow Christ but ... it has to be done in a certain way. That's just a fact. Otherwise, you are following yourself, and not Christ.
25 Jun 18
One has to base their ideas of Christ & Christianity off of the Gospels, the stories and words of Christ as recorded by eye witnesses, the Acts of Apostles, the Epistles of the apostles that were also divinely inspired elucidations on what is meant by Christianity, and then one also looks to the Old Testament for a broader context before the new revelations...
Next, of course, we look to the theologians, scholars, and Saints that have taught us more on these, but certainly these are erroneous if not reflective of the above...
It feels like Dive and many other liberal Christians just decide to believe what they want.
You can go to the previous page to see a brief post on hell and its Biblical basis that I made.
25 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokalia'Spiritual Warfare' is very real to me, on a daily basis.
Hello all. I would like to present as much of an traditional Christian perspective on this as I can.
[b]Why we believe in hell.
I. Hell is referenced in very familiar terms in Revelation 21:8:
[quote] But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars— ...[text shortened]... ns are correct, and I am very happy that Christians of many sects all share these basic beliefs.[/b]
I still find it difficult to believe that a loving God has such a place, hell, ready to go for the humans He professes to love.
Note: In my personal life, I have had my heart seriously broken from a failed relationship, which caused me much pain from being without her love and companionship for the rest of my life. It still hurts to this day.
So if hell is such a place where I will feel like that, regarding the lack of God's love forever, then I obviously want NO part of it!!
The pain of rejection from a human love is likely much less than that of God's rejection.
The thought of it sucks.
Originally posted by @chaney3From the evil I've seen and experienced in this world, the notion of hell seems less hard to believe.
'Spiritual Warfare' is very real to me, on a daily basis.
I still find it difficult to believe that a loving God has such a place, hell, ready to go for the humans He professes to love.
Note: In my personal life, I have had my heart seriously broken from a failed relationship, which caused me much pain from being without her love and companionship fo ...[text shortened]... from a human love is likely much less than that of God's rejection.
The thought of it sucks.
I can only imagine what it must have been like walking into the killing fields of the Nazi concentration camps.
There really is no reasoning with evil.
Originally posted by @philokaliaNot if you are someone like Mohammad who came about 500 years after Christ.
One has to base their ideas of Christ & Christianity off of the Gospels, the stories and words of Christ as recorded by eye witnesses, the Acts of Apostles, the Epistles of the apostles that were also divinely inspired elucidations on what is meant by Christianity, and then one also looks to the Old Testament for a broader context before the new revelati ...[text shortened]...
You can go to the previous page to see a brief post on hell and its Biblical basis that I made.
All you need to do is sit down and have someone write your own Bible.
There, that was easy! 😵
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Originally posted by @divegeesterDivegeester brags that he "pretty much" answers every question put to him, unequivocally and immediately.
Do you find it as strange as I do that while I unequivocally and pretty much immediately answer every question put to me...my questions are either dodged or obfuscated?
How very impressive!
Can ANYONE point me to his answer to this ??
WHO PUT THESE WORDS INTO THE MOUTH OF JESUS ??
"But I will show you whom you should fear, fear Him who after killing, has the authority to cast into Gehenna,
yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:5)
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Originally posted by @kellyjayYou at least show signs of appcreiating the enormity of the matter. Practically by definition, Hell exceeds in its horror anything any of us can imagine, right? Its contemplation alone, should be more horrible an experience than one that could reduce us to quivering blobs of endless pain, right? Otherwise, if we think that God places a limit on our imagination, protecting us from realizing how terrible it is going to be, supposedly out of love, then we are spared that great fear of God’s righteous wrath that could play a vital role in our salvation. Right? So do not hold your imagination back; it may save you. (Or drive you nuts.)
I think it Hell is the most horrible scary thing imaginable bar none. As far as keeping us
in a state of consciousness supernaturally, that may simply be the natural state of human
life period. So where life ends up is either going to be experiencing the love of God in one
place, or the wrath of God in another, either place the conscious state is just what life was
designed to have.
How any professed believer in Hell can so easily slide past these overwhelming thoughts is beyond me. Here’s another.
One of my nun teachers liked to envision out loud the notion of eternity. She described a pole the height of a mountain, made of pure diamond, the hardest substance. A dove circled the earth once a year, and when it passed over the pole, it ever so lightly brushed the top of the pole with a feather on its wing. The time it took to reduce the height of that pole to nothing was hardly a start to your days, if you were watching from a lake of fire.
26 Jun 18
Originally posted by @js357The song Amazing Grace was what caused me to envision the horror of Hell! Once we been there ten thousand years bright shining as the sun, we’ve no less days to sing God’s praise then when we first begun! Was thinking about those in Hell, knowing the same would be true for them as well.
You at least show signs of appcreiating the enormity of the matter. Practically by definition, Hell exceeds in its horror anything any of us can imagine, right? Its contemplation alone, should be more horrible an experience than one that could reduce us to quivering blobs of endless pain, right? Otherwise, if we think that God places a limit on our imaginatio ...[text shortened]... that pole to nothing was hardly a start to your days, if you were watching from a lake of fire.
God is not playing around with evil/sin all not covered in Christ will die in their sins. Which is why He is trying to save us!