Women and the church

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And why is not women qualified to take care of a herd? Hve you never seen a children care center? Haven't you seen the caring women herding a school of children?

Do you think women are lessser creatures than men? Is this what the christian church teaches?

Yes, I read the article. I can also give you an article about christian preaches and cardinals ...[text shortened]... rch are teaching that women aren't pure enough, near god enough, to be allowed to be preaches.

But this is not really the issue here. The issue is why the catholic church are teaching that women aren't pure enough, near god enough, to be allowed to be preaches.

The issue is not purity or sanctity. There are many female saints. For some of these women, the Church has awarded the highest honor of Doctor of the Church alongside St. Augutine and St. Thomas of Aquinas. But the priesthood, at least for Catholics, is not about sanctity or intelligence or ability to be a child carer. The central issue for Catholics is, Can a woman who has been ordained really confect the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus and can she absolve sins? For Anglicans, this is not really an issue. Most Anglican do not believe in the real presence or in the efficacy of confession. So ordaining women does not present any theological problems.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
one female Episcopalian bishop revealed that she was a practicing Muslim,

an incredible statement.

My mistake. She was only a priest and has since been removed from ministry:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html

http://newsblog.projo.com/2009/04/episcopal-bisho.html

Originally posted by Conrau K
My mistake. She was only a priest and has since been removed from ministry:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html

http://newsblog.projo.com/2009/04/episcopal-bisho.html

never the less, the two are fairly hard to reconcile, which makes it quite incredible, for i would state that they are 'mutually exclusive', but hey im no professor of theology.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]The Pope is one very blatent example of this. And the Catholic's have set up their priest to take over the position of Jesus and want you to pray thru them to God.

This is just false. As I have told you in the past, acquaint yourself with Catholic doctrine before you voice criticisms. I have never ever heard a Catholic pray through a priest.[/b]

Do not ones that have to ask for forgiveness of sins have to go to confession? Is it not a priest inside the confessional that they confess to? I would say that is praying thru a man. How would you explain that?

Originally posted by galveston75
Do not ones that have to ask for forgiveness of sins have to go to confession? Is it not a priest inside the confessional that they confess to? I would say that is praying thru a man. How would you explain that?

Yes. The priest stands in the place of Christ. But the penitent does not pray through a man. The confession is always directed to God, the penitent must say 'O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee'. And when the priest abolves, he does so in the name of Christ saying 'I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.' No where does the penitent actually pray to the priest or through the priest. Anyway, Lutherans practice this same confession.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
never the less, the two are fairly hard to reconcile, which makes it quite incredible, for i would state that they are 'mutually exclusive', but hey im no professor of theology.

I would think the two completely incompatible. I think Christians should acknolwedge the faith they share with Muslims. For one, both sides pray to the same God, both have the same Judaic origins. But to be practicing Christians and Muslim is insane.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]But this is not really the issue here. The issue is why the catholic church are teaching that women aren't pure enough, near god enough, to be allowed to be preaches.

The issue is not purity or sanctity. There are many female saints. For some of these women, the Church has awarded the highest honor of Doctor of the Church alongside St. Augutine an ...[text shortened]... or in the efficacy of confession. So ordaining women does not present any theological problems.[/b]

First, when were women disallowed from becoming priests? I think that it was fairly early—before, in fact, the advent of the “Roman Catholic Church” (i.e., with some wiggle-room, before 1054). [If you don’t know offhand, I’ll look it up; I just thought you might.]

Second, Paul mentions Junia (a woman) as an apostle. Now, an apostle is not the same as a priest, but then…

Third, the doctrine of “real presence” has been argued both among Protestants and between Protestants and Catholics for a long time. How the doctrine of actual transubstantiation (and what that actually means!)—or not—bears on the sex of the celebrant, I do not understand. As for the “efficacy of confession”: Yes, Anglicans believe in the efficacy of confession; it is not a sacrament, however. When I was an Anglican, I would have had no problem going through the rite of confession with a woman priest (nor when I was a Lutheran—ELCA, for nearly 40 years—for that matter).

Of course, I see no more “scandal” in the RCC accepting Anglicans than I do in Anglicans accepting, say, Mathew Fox: that kind of thing goes on all the time, apparently.

You are correct, of course, about the purity/sanctity issue: Theresa of Avila is a "Doctor of the Church".

Originally posted by Conrau K
Yes. The priest stands in the place of Christ. But the penitent does not pray through a man. The confession is always directed to God, the penitent must say 'O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee'. And when the priest abolves, he does so in the name of Christ saying 'I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, an y pray to the priest or through the priest. Anyway, Lutherans practice this same confession.

But this is where it is so wrong. No man is the Christ who is the only mediator between humans and God. That is what Jesus said at John 14:6,14. 1Tim 2:5.
If it is now ok to have a man represent us to God as a mediator of prayers..show me the scriptures where it says that?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this just goes to illustrate the problems that one faces when one denies scripture and tries to supersede it with social convention. Firstly there never was a clergy and laity divide and secondly, women were not given the position of responsibility of shepherding the 'flock of God'.

Would you ever allow a woman to pastor you?

Originally posted by kirksey957
Would you ever allow a woman to pastor you?

I once knew a fellow who was very very conservative in his theology. Happened to have cancer. He had a female doctor who was aware of his beliefs. She asked him if he had a problem with having a female doctor. He said, "Doctor, I really don't care what sex you are or what you believe in. I'm only interested if you believe in a morphine drip to help me."

To which I say a hearty "Amen!"

Originally posted by galveston75
But this is where it is so wrong. No man is the Christ who is the only mediator between humans and God. That is what Jesus said at John 14:6,14. 1Tim 2:5.
If it is now ok to have a man represent us to God as a mediator of prayers..show me the scriptures where it says that?

Again, Catholics do not believe that the priest is any kind of mediator, especially a mediator of prayers (confession by the way is not a prayer but a sacrament, like baptism.)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
women are perfectly able to be teachers and amply qualified to care for the congregation, however it is simply Gods arrangement that is all. Therefore the arrangement itself must be respected. It has nothing to do with a gender bias, nor education, nor even ability, it is simply an arrangement that is to be respected. As for the church, i have no ...[text shortened]... arrangement of God, and what you see happening in Noobsters post and in your own, is the result.

it is a paul arrangement

jesus never said women should keep their mouths shut and you would think he would make time to talk about this important issue if that was his will

so it is a matter of agreeing with paul. someone who claims jesus spoke to him. which makes him similar to most derranged homeless doods on the street.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
it is a paul arrangement

jesus never said women should keep their mouths shut and you would think he would make time to talk about this important issue if that was his will

so it is a matter of agreeing with paul. someone who claims jesus spoke to him. which makes him similar to most derranged homeless doods on the street.

are you also prepared to call out Christ for not picking any women Apostles? shall you Panzy dude? Perhaps you shall call out God himself, for not picking any Lady officiating priests under the Mosaic arrangement, in fact, when Moses sister, Miriam got a little presumptuous, she was stricken with leprosy, all be it temporarily. Paul was merely following the pattern set by God himself, then Christ, thus your rather unfounded statement is a double triple bum burger with extra cheese!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you also prepared to call out Christ for not picking any women Apostles? shall you Panzy dude? Perhaps you shall call out God himself, for not picking any Lady officiating priests under the Mosaic arrangement, in fact, when Moses sister, Miriam got a little presumptuous, she was stricken with leprosy, all be it temporarily. Paul was merely fol ...[text shortened]... en Christ, thus your rather unfounded statement is a double triple bum burger with extra cheese!

jesus had women followers. only you don't hear much about them because the gospels were written by men. rumors circulate about a gospel written by mary magdalene. only you know, the doodz in the vatican are doodz and dismissed it. rumors indicate that mary magdalene had an important role in spreading christianity. but of course nobody mentions her.
also there is a reason jesus only chose men as apostles, because all of humanity at that time was made of mysoginist men and the women who served them. having a woman speaking in public wouldn't be very good PR.
but even so, post a verse from the bible that has jesus say that women should obey men in everything. and then we talk.


"she was stricken with leprosy" so the OT says. proves exactly as much as a homeless dude saying jesus wants us to wear aluminum foil hats.

"Paul was merely following the pattern set by God himself, then Christ."
no, he was following the pattern set by mysoginist jews then mysoginists gospel writers. which might be a bit harsh seeing as it is not their fault they were barbaric and ignorant. we people of today know or should know better.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
jesus had women followers. only you don't hear much about them because the gospels were written by men. rumors circulate about a gospel written by mary magdalene. only you know, the doodz in the vatican are doodz and dismissed it. rumors indicate that mary magdalene had an important role in spreading christianity. but of course nobody mentions her.
also th heir fault they were barbaric and ignorant. we people of today know or should know better.

thankyou Zahlanzi, were are of course not referring to women in general but to an arrangement, or an office of responsibility, now you have evaded the issue, but you shall not get away so easily, why did Christ, specifically pick twelve men to serve as Apostles, which was an official office of oversight and a responsible position, if you please!