Spirituality
07 Sep 09
07 Sep 09
4 edits
Originally posted by menace71what did Jesus say, when he gave the model prayer? you can find it at Matthew chapter six verse nine.
The two are intertwined. If Jesus is not God? Why pray to Jesus then? Did you JW's know that the WTS once taught that it was ok to worship Jesus? Then they changed this doctrine and tried to hide this fact. Interesting little tid bit.
Manny
(Matthew 6:9-15) . . .“you must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. Give us today our bread for this day; and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.’
what is the name of the Father that it should be sanctified? Pslam 83:18, states,
(Psalm 83:18) . . .That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Did Christ say, let my name be sanctified, no he said, our fathers name should be , yes that is correct our Father, for Christ was a created being.! Did Christ say let my will be done, no he said let the fathers will be done. This verse once again shows the utter folly of the trinity, for if it is true, Christ would have been praying to himself! the trinitartians would now have us believe that Christ created himself, resurrected himself and now prays to himself! I that is not utter folly than i don't know what is.
there are many belief's the witnesses once held, but since we have found them to be false we have discarded them, can the same be said of those who cling to their ancient dogmas borrowed from the Greeks, i dont think so, read it and weep you trinitarians, read it and weep! your traditions have made the word of god invalid!
07 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71How do you account for what Christ taught through word and deed and is famously recorded in the Lords Prayer? if you are intent on mentioning Steven, then go ahead, let us see what happens, but i would rather you addressed these issue first.
Ok so How do we account for men praying to Jesus? They do this it's in the bible.
Manny
08 Sep 09
2 edits
Sounds very similar to Catholics saying Mary is there mediator. Although the book of Hebrews indeed says Christ is our mediator. He is our advocate before the Father. The book of Hebrews speaks on the supremacy of Christ. How He is above the angels even. The book of Hebrews contrast the the old covenant with man with the new covenant.
Manny
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08 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71That's something that churches came up with to instill allegiance to a particular expression of faith. Because Jesus was Jewish and did not form a church, you find no references from Jesus for the necessity of praying to him. Jesus wanted people to have faith and covenant with his heavenly father, not with Jesus.
Ok So why did men pray to Jesus in the bible? Why do men still pray to Jesus?
Manny
Instances of praying to Jesus happen post-Gospels; that is, Acts and afterwards.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by Badwater1. "Guard my sheep",
That's something that churches came up with to instill allegiance to a particular expression of faith. Because Jesus was Jewish and did not form a church, you find no references from Jesus for the necessity of praying to him. Jesus wanted people to have faith and covenant with his heavenly father, not with Jesus.
Instances of praying to Jesus happen post-Gospels; that is, Acts and afterwards.
2."No comes to The Father but thru Me",
3. Jesus Is God,
4. look at 2
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09 Sep 09
Originally posted by daniel58Somewhere in #2 I do not see "No one comes to the Father except by praying to Me." That verse is in a different context and one of these days I'll offer up a sermon on it for you.
1. "Guard my sheep",
2."No comes to The Father but thru Me",
3. Jesus Is God,
4. look at 2