You were dead

@sonship said
@divegeester
The innermost part of fallen man comes into the world deadened. The spirit is "dead". The spirit is separated from God.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6) .

The capital S means God the Spirit, God Himself.
The small s means the spirit of man.
It does not mean ...[text shortened]... re dead in their spirit until the miracle of being born of God. They bury their own physically dead.

I was asking KellyJay as it is his claim his OP.

@divegeester said
I was asking KellyJay as it is his claim his OP.

There is no opening post, only a thread title

@kellyjay said
You were dead in your sins, a very difficult place to be to then justify yourself, to make one's self righteous enough to be acceptable to God. But God rich in mercy because of His great love made us alive together with Christ. This was done by grace not as a result of works, so it is God working and we are His workmanship. The thing about all of this is God's love ...[text shortened]... created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Is it therefore your contention that all the thousands and thousands that Jesus preached to, are doomed?

@rajk999 said
There is no opening post, only a thread title

That was an accident, but it is filled with all that can be done by us to be accepted by God on our own.

@rajk999 said
Is it therefore your contention that all the thousands and thousands that Jesus preached to, are doomed?

What did Jesus say about that!?

Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

@kellyjay said
What did Jesus say about that!?

Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

The wide gate is the gate where there are billions people who believe that mouth professions of faith is all that is required. This is the wide gate of the foolish man of Matt 7. The narrow gate is the gate of the wise man who follows the commandments of Christ.

Jesus says this at the end of this long discourse the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus says to follow His commandments and this is the narrow gate that people like you clearly choose not to enter. You are chosen the broad way of damnation

Here is the passage:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matthew 7:13-27 KJV)

The wise man enters in at the narrow gate and follows the commandments.
The foolish man takes the broad way and calls Jesus 'Lord Lord' to no avail.
So far you are way off the mark and your doctrine and OP is nonsense.

@kellyjay said
Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

Can someone who believes in Jesus get through "the narrow gate" if he or she does not obey Jesus' commandments and does not do good works?

@fmf said
Can someone who believes in Jesus get through "the narrow gate" if he or she does not obey Jesus' commandments and does not do good works?

He wont know. He is a wide gate church Christian. They do not know they are going down the broad way. The narrow gate is the gate for those following the commandments as Jesus stated clearly. They have spent their lives condemning the commandments and by extension they condemn Jesus Christ.

But Jesus will forgive them as he did His tormentors .. Father forgive them for they do not what they do

@rajk999 said
The wide gate is the gate where there are billions people who believe that mouth professions of faith is all that is required. This is the wide gate of the foolish man of Matt 7. The narrow gate is the gate of the wise man who follows the commandments of Christ.

Jesus says this at the end of this long discourse the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus says to follow His commandments ...[text shortened]... 'Lord Lord' to no avail.
So far you are way off the mark and your doctrine and OP is nonsense.[/b]

Adding to the text again?

@bigdoggproblem said
Why were you 'dead'?

Do you really want to know?

I'm serious. Is it possible that bigdoggproblem, deep in the innermost part of his being, has a question relative to his existence that longs to know 'why'?

'Why?' is a great question. A good question. It's an honest question, if asked in sincerity.

Matthew 7:7,8
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

In the Greek the tenses are, ask, and continually ask, seek, and continually seek, knock(reverently) and continually knock, and you, me and anyone will receive and find and the way will be opened.

Don't let your eyes glass over, I'm not done yet. ❓

@kellyjay said
Adding to the text again?

Can a follower of Jesus just BELIEVE his or her way through "the narrow gate" without obeying Jesus' commandments and without good works?

@SecondSon

Matthew 7:7,8
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

In the Greek the tenses are, ask, and continually ask, seek, and continually seek, knock(reverently) and continually knock, and you, me and anyone will receive and find and the way will be opened.

Thanks! I like that. Praise the Lord.

@kellyjay said
Adding to the text again?

No. Throughout the Sermon on the Mount the teachings are the same
- wise man v the foolish man
- the narrow way v the broad way
- light v darkness
- good tree v corrupt tree

In all cases one group follows the commandments and gets eternal life and the other does not and gets damnation. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one single solitary word about believing in Him. Absolutely nothing about this ...

You were dead in your sins, a very difficult place to be to then justify yourself, to make one's self righteous enough to be acceptable to God. But God rich in mercy because of His great love made us alive together with Christ. This was done by grace not as a result of works, so it is God working and we are His workmanship. The thing about all of this is God's love for us, the whole point of God sending Jesus to us was His love for us.

Those who follow Christ gets eternal life. Those who follow your church gets damnation. Your church doctrines condemn those who follow the commandments, therefore your church condemns Christ.

@fmf said
Can someone who believes in Jesus get through "the narrow gate" if he or she does not obey Jesus' commandments and does not do good works?

Question is; how does one "enter" "the narrow gate" if they're not "born again"?

Consider the exact wording of the narrative.

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It is the way that is "narrow". It is all about obedience. One is lead "unto" life in the "narrow way".

Salvation is not obtained by keeping commandments. But that doesn't lower the standard. The concept is hard to grasp.

For example: consider Ephesians 5:25 ~ Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Logic, reason and a little common sense tells us that loving one's wife as Christ loved the church is an impossibility, but that doesn't lower the standard.

Specifically, examine verse 14. What is the "gate", and what is the "way"?

The "strait gate" is the cross, and the "way" is Jesus.

"Salvation", was made, procured, obtained and earned by Jesus for the man or woman that believes that Jesus died for their sins.

That is the initial step. By grace through faith in Jesus and His substitutionary atonement on the cross.

Without that there is no salvation at all.

@secondson said
Question is; how does one "enter" "the narrow gate" if they're not "born again"?

Consider the exact wording of the narrative.

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and fe ...[text shortened]... Jesus and His substitutionary atonement on the cross.

Without that there is no salvation at all.

The way is following Jesus, that means following the commandments
Not professing to know Jesus like a hypocrite.