16 Apr 13
9 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedI don't think it was a revision of my earlier statement either, if that helps.
You haven't offered me any source material to suggest that the allegations of racism were anything other than stupid and offensive nonsense. Like you suggested, I searched the website for examples, and found a load of stupid and offensive nonsense. If, as I presume, you also read this stuff, you should have simply dismissed it as stupid and offensive nonsense. Yet you still bend over backwards to see a potential justification or explanation for it, other than what it clearly appears to be.
If it emerges that John Paramor said something to Guan Tianlang that could be misconstrued as racist, and these posters were alluding to this, I am more than happy to revise my position. Instead, all I find is people calling him a racist bigot simply because Guan Tianlang is not white. It really is very offensive for a whole host of reasons.
But if you (not you) are going to bandy around phrases like racist bigot, you should be thankful you are allowed anonymity, as the courts will more than happily explain to you why this is not acceptable behaviour unless you can support it with evidence. You simply are not allowed to go around making comments like these 'on the maybe'.
I really don't think the example you give is relevant. If you think that John Paramor's actions could in some way reasonably be misconstrued as racist, and can explain why, then I would happily revise my position. But it is simply not good enough (and again, I am not saying you are saying this) to say Guan Tianlang is not white, therefore it is acceptable or understandable if people call a white rules official a racist bigot when he imposes a penalty on him after repeated warnings to speed up play, and absolutely in accordance with the rules of golf.
And to confirm, I am not suggesting that you think it is acceptable for people to have called him a racist bigot. I am saying it is not reasonable, based on the evidence I have seen, for anyone to call him this, as they do not have a shred of evidence to support this claim. Until they do, we should not be cutting them any slack and we should be dismissing what they have to say, not simply saying we find it 'unconvincing'.
At the outset, you asked, would the same penalty have been imposed on Tiger Woods? I remember when Seve was at the height of his powers, and in some ways the same kind of draw in Europe. I have since been reminded of an incident where Seve shamelessly tried to arm twist John Paramor into giving him a free drop when none was justified. Paramor didn't budge.
The only difference was, no one thought to mouth off afterwards that maybe Paramor just doesn't like the Spanish. But possibly that was because this was before the Internet was around.
God, I feel old.
🙁
17 Apr 13
9 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedYou do seem to have difficulty in spotting that you are the one trying to create strawmen. I have not, nor have I ever suggested, that you personally believe that John Paramor is a racist or that the penalty was motivated by racism.
Why do you persist in making his claim?
Do you now accept that the statement you are making is false?
I also notice you seem to rely very heavily on other real-life situations that have little bearing or relationship to the issue we were discussing. The evidence to hand in each of the two situations is completely different, and a different response is therefore possible and appropriate.
I note that you still cannot offer any evidence that anyone could reasonably interpret the actions of John Paramor as racist. I do not believe any exist, and I expect you will continue to ignore this point.
17 Apr 13
3 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedI was reviewing the old posts to see if I had ever suggested that you thought John Paramor was a racist and I came across this little gem which I had previously missed.
Where exactly in the rules does it say I must or should claim a time out win?
In fact, you may not be aware that RHP specifically encourages you not to claim time out wins immediately.
So your point is both wrong on the letter of the rules and in terms of the spirit which this site tries to encourage.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by Rank outsiderI have reviewed the old posts and do not believe that I have ever claimed or suggested that you personally believed that the penalty was motivated by racism. Despite my repeated denials, you continue to make false claims that I am making this a 'strawman' argument.
I was reviewing the old posts to see if I had ever suggested that you thought John Paramor was a racist and I came across this little gem which I had previously missed.
Where exactly in the rules does it say I must or should claim a time out win?
In fact, you may not be aware that RHP specifically encourages you [b]not to claim time out wins ...[text shortened]... wrong on the letter of the rules and in terms of the spirit which this site tries to encourage.[/b]
Do you have any evidence to support your claim or are you now prepared to withdraw it? Or is this another case where we just gloss over the inconvenience of having to cite evidence to support allegations and simply allow a false statement to persist?
17 Apr 13
2 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedAgain, you are missing the point entirely.
These comments all proceed from the assumption that I believe you think that John Paramor is racist. This is not, and has never been, my view. Your constant references to this are bordering on the obsessional.
If I had said in response to crowley’s post:
'I believe that such sexist comments should be treated with the contempt'
I doubt you would have spent the next 4 pages or so complaining about my position. Yet that is pretty much all I said about the allegations of racism against John Paramor.
Suggestions of racism, given the international profile of golf today, should be treated with contempt until evidence is offered.
You took this to mean, for some reason, that I thought you were suggesting that racism was involved. How you come to that conclusion is beyond me.
In reality, the only bone of contention between you and me is about how people should respond to these kind of allegations.
If you think my reaction is too severe, I disagree, as I think the facts support it in this case. The professor example you give is irrelevant, as the facts are completely different.
I also resent your suggestion that I would simply dismiss a genuine concern of a student, made in good faith, out-of-hand without investigating further, and even go on to suggest that I would attack his character.
Again this is untrue (and pretty offensive as well) and like you I have had to deal with allegations of racism within the workplace.
The post that was quoted here has been removedI imagine your ignore list is quite long now, as you also seem to have a problem with quite a few other posters on this site. One day, it might twig that the problem may not all be with us. Seems a bit childish to me, but if it makes you feel a bit better so be it.
The fact remains, you have made false statements about me and are not willing to retract them or provide evidence to support them. And you continue to provide examples to support your position which have a completely different set of facts to the one under discussion. And your hypocrisy on the debates forums is there for all to see. I expect it is the last point that is really bugging you.
18 Apr 13
1 edit
The post that was quoted here has been removedFlowers also bloom well on a pile of rich manure.
The victim card, the martyr card and the 'my chess rating is higher than yours' card in one post. I have to admire your economy of expression.
Seriously, do know how silly and pompous you sound? You are on a chess website arguing over an incident at a golf tournament and you are imagining yourself as Martin Luther King.
P.S. You might want to use the edit function to correct your spelling of indefatigable.
18 Apr 13
Originally posted by Rank outsiderYes I made the list and now reside, safe in the knowledge that I shall never be bothered again. View it as a privilege, not everyone makes the grade.
I imagine your ignore list is quite long now, as you also seem to have a problem with quite a few other posters on this site. One day, it might twig that the problem may not all be with us. Seems a bit childish to me, but if it makes you feel a bit better so be it.
The fact remains, you have made false statements about me and are not willing to re ...[text shortened]... ates forums is there for all to see. I expect it is the last point that is really bugging you.