25 Jan 10
Originally posted by MelanerpesThe same comparison can be made between Manning and Marino. Without Manning, the Colts would be no better than a .500 team.
I agree.
This glorification of the individual greatly diminishes the fact that TEAMS win championships.
If the only thing that mattered was "rings", Robert Horry would be considered one of the all-time great NBA players.
As stated earlier, the Fins would have had losing seasons without Marino.
What makes Manning the better qb is the fact that he WON A RING!!!
Rings do matter.
25 Jan 10
rings are important, just not the MOST important. For example, someone brought up that Brady has more rings but still isn't the better QB? I agree. Brady had help from Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and was backed up by a defense coached by one of the best of all time. Peyton had no defense and was seriously hurting in the running game when he won his ring. It's a similar story with Montana. He had great receivers and a great running game. he had help. No other player has done so well with such little help other than maybe Dan Marino. And therein lies the standout difference. Peyton has a ring, Dan doesn't.
25 Jan 10
Originally posted by Big Orange CountryExcept Moss has never won a ring for anyone. Brady got his rings with lots less receiving talent than Manning ever had and had to beat Manning to get his rings in two AFC CG's, one in Indy and one in Foxboro. If what you say is true then Manning should have nothing but rings since he's never had any talent to support him. So Marvin Harrison was a scrub? That great RB, Edgerrin James who fled to Arizona was no chump runner. Manning has done nothing alone nor has any other. He is great, just not great beyond needing help. He does not do his own blocking, catching, special teams, and has never played a snap on D. Get real! So far you had been logical and now border on sycophancy.
rings are important, just not the MOST important. For example, someone brought up that Brady has more rings but still isn't the better QB? I agree. Brady had help from Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and was backed up by a defense coached by one of the best of all time. Peyton had no defense and was seriously hurting in the running game when he won his ri ...[text shortened]... n maybe Dan Marino. And therein lies the standout difference. Peyton has a ring, Dan doesn't.
25 Jan 10
Originally posted by scacchipazzoI beg to differ on the Indy defense...Dwight Freeney was a terror for starters.
Except Moss has never won a ring for anyone. Brady got his rings with lots less receiving talent than Manning ever had and had to beat Manning to get his rings in two AFC CG's, one in Indy and one in Foxboro. If what you say is true then Manning should have nothing but rings since he's never had any talent to support him. So Marvin Harrison was a scrub? ...[text shortened]... never played a snap on D. Get real! So far you had been logical and now border on sycophancy.
25 Jan 10
Originally posted by Scotty70Differ with whom? I am arguing that Manning had a better team than bigorangcounty states. Freeney is a monster, but not that hard to handle precisely because he's smallish, injures easily and is up against a more than credible left tackle. Manning cannot win this or any other game on his own. Is he a great team leader? Of course he is. Few winning QB's can do it without great leadership skills, incredible work ethic and heroics like Favre tried. Manning and his O-line have a headache ahead of them.
I beg to differ on the Indy defense...Dwight Freeney was a terror for starters.
26 Jan 10
Originally posted by sh76Sorry, but I did not mention Tom Brady. The guys I mentioned are all superior in accomplishment to Peyton Manning, at this point. Peyton is a great QB as I said, but those guys I listed are all ahead of him at this time, IMO.
It drives me nuts when people judge a player based solely on how many rings he has.
Tom Brady has more rings than Manning, but any objective observer who has watched their careers can see plain as day that Manning is the better player.
If Marino had a running game OR a defense, he would be considered the greatest QB ever. He did it consistently year in a ...[text shortened]... -5 last year with Matt Cassel has sure taken some of the luster off of Brady's legacy, eh?
I have never been a Tom Brady fan. I believe he is a success of the system he plays under. He is a good QB, but not in the same level as the guys I mentioned.
*here come all the Pats fans screaming and yelling now*
26 Jan 10
he is easily the most accurate quarterback. how many times do you turn on sportscenter and all the announcers can do is shake their heads and say "Peyton Manning made another perfect pass against perfect coverage" he is also known for being one of the smartest quarterbacks. We see this in the countless times that he makes changes at the line of scrimmage, picking apart defenses before the ball is even snapped. and to the idiot that said that based on my arguments, Peyton should have won every super bowl since entering the league, you're being ridiculous, as no one has ever done that nor will anyone ever do that.And while yes peyton has had help over the years, his help is nothing compared to the help that the montanas and elways and bradys have had over the years.
26 Jan 10
Originally posted by shortcircuitUnder what measure are "all" of those QBs more accomplished than Manning?
Sorry, but I did not mention Tom Brady. The guys I mentioned are all superior in accomplishment to Peyton Manning, at this point. Peyton is a great QB as I said, but those guys I listed are all ahead of him at this time, IMO.
I have never been a Tom Brady fan. I believe he is a success of the system he plays under. He is a good QB, but not in the same level as the guys I mentioned.
*here come all the Pats fans screaming and yelling now*
I don't have time right now; but later I'll try to compare the numbers in terms of record, QB rating, yardage, yards per attempt, TD, TD/INT ratio, etc.
How much do you want to bet that Manning compares favorably to ALL of those players?
26 Jan 10
Originally posted by Big Orange CountryOh please!!! Peyton has had no help?? You are a joke!!
he is easily the most accurate quarterback. how many times do you turn on sportscenter and all the announcers can do is shake their heads and say "Peyton Manning made another perfect pass against perfect coverage" he is also known for being one of the smartest quarterbacks. We see this in the countless times that he makes changes at the line of s ...[text shortened]... nothing compared to the help that the montanas and elways and bradys have had over the years.
Edgerine James and Joseph Addai. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Anthony Gonzales, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon. Did any of those guys help at all??
Peyton is good, but did he catch all of those balls he threw? Did he run them into the end zone? Did those running backs keep defenses honest so he could pick them apart?
There has NEVER been a great QB who didn't have talent around him to make him successful.
26 Jan 10
Originally posted by sh76I will bet you he does not out perform all of them. Remember, I said he was one of the great QB's...not the greatest. There are intangibles you have to factor. Peyton has never displayed the Montana magic. He is not even close to the two minute magic that John Elway performed. Marino was a better passing QB and he was injured a chunk of his career and had minimal run support, which Peyton has enjoyed his entire career.
Under what measure are "all" of those QBs more accomplished than Manning?
I don't have time right now; but later I'll try to compare the numbers in terms of record, QB rating, yardage, yards per attempt, TD, TD/INT ratio, etc.
How much do you want to bet that Manning compares favorably to ALL of those players?
Jonny Unitas played in a different era...true smashmouth football. Peyton would not have performed as well in that arena. Unitas was the same type of leader as Peyton.
26 Jan 10
Originally posted by shortcircuityou, sir, are the joke if you are going to try to argue that Peyton has had help from his running game. they are dead last in rushing the football. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Colts haven't had a 100 yard rusher all season. and yet here they are in the Super Bowl. collie and Garcon are good, but remember Peyton makes them look good, not the other way around. as far as this "two minute magic" that you say Peyton lacks? he is second in the NFL in scoring inside the two minute warning, only behind drew brees. On another note, you say that Peyton has enjoyed run support his entire career? That ended with Edgerrin James. and if you'll remember he left because of his unability to pass block... for Peyton! Rhodes and Addai were both marginal rushers, but superb at picking up blitzes.
I will bet you he does not out perform all of them. Remember, I said he was one of the great QB's...not the greatest. There are intangibles you have to factor. Peyton has never displayed the Montana magic. He is not even close to the two minute magic that John Elway performed. Marino was a better passing QB and he was injured a chunk of his career and h ...[text shortened]... n would not have performed as well in that arena. Unitas was the same type of leader as Peyton.
27 Jan 10
Originally posted by Big Orange CountryShow me the rings! How dare you compare Manning to Montana?!? Manning is great, but not the greatest. Twice he was unable to beat Brady and head to head against Montana he would have lost. You make assertions as if Manning nevr had but puny receivers and never a running game. Montana never had a running game. Egerrin James was better than anything Montana had yet Manning never won while having a good running attack. Addai was a big reason for the 07 success. Manning never went anywhere until Patriots went into decline. If he's so great how come he could not beat Brady? accuracy and all he never beat Brady when it counted, except once then lost to Steelers.
he is easily the most accurate quarterback. how many times do you turn on sportscenter and all the announcers can do is shake their heads and say "Peyton Manning made another perfect pass against perfect coverage" he is also known for being one of the smartest quarterbacks. We see this in the countless times that he makes changes at the line of s ...[text shortened]... nothing compared to the help that the montanas and elways and bradys have had over the years.
27 Jan 10
Originally posted by scacchipazzoso much bs in that post. i'll try to just cover the main parts you were wrong about. montana enjoyed a great rushing attack. if you'll remember, that is not a game between peyton and tom, but rather a game between the colts and patriots. Brady had more help from superstars like randy moss and wes welker with a bellichek defense on the other side of the ball. tom had much more help. peyton never went anywhere until pats declined? are you retarded? they won in '06. one year before the patriots undefeated season, and only a couple after their last SB win. The patriots were in their prime when peyton won. I do believe that peyton beat brady head to head in the AFC title game that year.
Show me the rings! How dare you compare Manning to Montana?!? Manning is great, but not the greatest. Twice he was unable to beat Brady and head to head against Montana he would have lost. You make assertions as if Manning nevr had but puny receivers and never a running game. Montana never had a running game. Egerrin James was better than anything Mont ...[text shortened]... Brady? accuracy and all he never beat Brady when it counted, except once then lost to Steelers.
27 Jan 10
Originally posted by Big Orange CountryYou have your eras all wrong as far as who was the team in the game you allude to. The one time Manning beat Brady head to head was a indeed AFC CG, 06. HOwever, Moss was never involved, either with Pats or any other team in a winning championship game and was still with Raiders in 06. The only trip Moss has had to SB was the loss to the Giants. Welker and Moss both came on board in 2007. The SB wins Brady had were without superstars of any kind other than himself. Credible defense? Yes! But other than some greats on pass coverage there were hardly any household names at all. The 06 game indeed yuo are right. 38-34 Colts. Boy that was some game. But no Moss, Welker or such played on Pats that year. If you remember the Colts won more on bonehead Pats plays than on their own prowess. Pats thought they could win on mystique alone!
so much bs in that post. i'll try to just cover the main parts you were wrong about. montana enjoyed a great rushing attack. if you'll remember, that is not a game between peyton and tom, but rather a game between the colts and patriots. Brady had more help from superstars like randy moss and wes welker with a bellichek defense on the other side ...[text shortened]... peyton won. I do believe that peyton beat brady head to head in the AFC title game that year.
27 Jan 10
Originally posted by scacchipazzoMontana never had support. Really?
Show me the rings! How dare you compare Manning to Montana?!? Manning is great, but not the greatest. Twice he was unable to beat Brady and head to head against Montana he would have lost. You make assertions as if Manning nevr had but puny receivers and never a running game. Montana never had a running game. Egerrin James was better than anything Mont ...[text shortened]... Brady? accuracy and all he never beat Brady when it counted, except once then lost to Steelers.
Roger Craig was great as a runner and a receiver. Jerry Rice was the best receiver who ever lived. Ronnie Lott is a Hall of Famer. There was no salary cap. You kept your players forever and the 49ers were stacked. They had a back up QB who is a hall of famer.