Europe way behind uk and usa on race issues

Originally posted by tomtom232
Just because you want to make something up doesn't make it so. Words don't, all of a sudden, change their meaning, especially a word that garnered as much usage as the word "cracker."

I am not making anything up. Words change as time passes. How about "awful" which formerly meant full of awe? There are countless examples. Language evolves as you should well know. The current meaning of cracker has nothing to do with the usage of 150 years ago. Today it's a pejorative term used against whites, same as honky, poor white trash, redneck and other such terms. Meanings change as people who suffered the original meaning of the word as they no longer relate to its original meaning. The opposite is more apt to take place in the minds of race mongers. For example the purported origin of the word "picnic", which now, with no basis or foundation, race mongers claim means pick a "nig", allegedly derived from the "quaint" southern custom of killing a black slave for entertainment during outdoor meals. This is completely preposterous and completely made up.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Probably both are true but the one we're interested in is one which would be in use by descendants of african slaves and not descendants of wealthy europeans and americans. The african slaves would have been ignorant of this usage.

So it's which ever one puts black on white racism in the best light then. There is no excuse for racist remarks from anyone with the proviso that the racism of the powerful is obviously more detrimental to it's target population than vice-versa.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
So it's which ever one puts black on white racism in the best light then. There is no excuse for racist remarks from anyone with the proviso that the racism of the powerful is obviously more detrimental to it's target population than vice-versa.

How so? Racism is racism. Once we set up categories for one being worse than another then it will ever be eliminated since condoning one and magnifying the other leads to persistent use of racist remarks. Better still is to just let players settle these issues on their own. Why does FIFA, EPL or any other league feel they need to enact social engineering in the first place? No such rules exist in NFL outside of broad taunting and you never see racism being raised as an issue. As the players interact the issue tends to disappear for most racist ideas are the product of ignorance and lack of exposure to the group perceived of as "inferior".

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
How so? Racism is racism. Once we set up categories for one being worse than another then it will ever be eliminated since condoning one and magnifying the other leads to persistent use of racist remarks. Better still is to just let players settle these issues on their own. Why does FIFA, EPL or any other league feel they need to enact social engineerin ...[text shortened]... eas are the product of ignorance and lack of exposure to the group perceived of as "inferior".

The FA in england bough out the 'kick it out' campaign because of the racist chants at football grounds and the racist tretment of black players in the 70s and 80s by the fan. Unless you lived through that time you would not undrstand how it was back then
.
I also remember a major ho-ha in the NFL , by the media when in the late 80s one of your commentators refered to a washington redskin wide receiver as 'juming like a monkey' to catch a ball.

Originally posted by spurs73
The FA in england bough out the 'kick it out' campaign because of the racist chants at football grounds and the racist tretment of black players in the 70s and 80s by the fan. Unless you lived through that time you would not undrstand how it was back then
.
I also remember a major ho-ha in the NFL , by the media when in the late 80s one of your commentators refered to a washington redskin wide receiver as 'juming like a monkey' to catch a ball.

That was a very minor incident and it was done extolling the ability of the player who happened to be black. We're all primates so unless the NFL commentator meant it in a derogatory manner it was much ado about nothing! As for what fans do in FA it is none of FIFA's nor FA's business. Hooligans are famously ignorant, boorish and exhibit deplorable behavior. Yet to carry sanctions against bad fans and punish teams for their fans behavior is as deplorable as the fans misbehavior. Europe has always seemed fond of punishing innocents in some form or other. FIFA imposes such rules around the world forcing forfeits because of fan behavior as if the team egged the fans on and such.

I have no idea how bad it was in 70's and 80's. Agreed. Yet social engineering is social engineering and neither FIFA nor FA are experts on modifying human behavior as evidenced by inability to eliminate rolling on the pitch as if struck by lightning for a minor foul. How exactly is FIFA or FA gonna change more complex human behavior as racism is? I find the whole thing absurdly amusing as a Fellini movie.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
That was a very minor incident and it was done extolling the ability of the player who happened to be black. We're all primates so unless the NFL commentator meant it in a derogatory manner it was much ado about nothing! As for what fans do in FA it is none of FIFA's nor FA's business. Hooligans are famously ignorant, boorish and exhibit deplorable beha ...[text shortened]... ex human behavior as racism is? I find the whole thing absurdly amusing as a Fellini movie.

I disagree with you on a number of points.
When you go to a football match- you pay for your ticket- so why should be sit there for ninty minutes had have to hear fans calling each other and the players by the N word or throwing bananas at balck players or giving nazi salutes?

It is because of this type of behiviour that certain laws/rules were brought into the british game.

How would be feel if you went to the theather or the restaurant and were subjected to such behiviour? So why should players and fans have to accept racist chants at sports events?

Sports and society go hand in hand- you cant have one rule for sports and another for other social activities

Originally posted by spurs73
I disagree with you on a number of points.
When you go to a football match- you pay for your ticket- so why should be sit there for ninty minutes had have to hear fans calling each other and the players by the N word or throwing bananas at balck players or giving nazi salutes?

It is because of this type of behiviour that certain laws/rules were brought i ...[text shortened]... ciety go hand in hand- you cant have one rule for sports and another for other social activities

Punish the fans then, not the team. As long as they are not injuring anyone let them call anyone whatever they want. If they yell racial insults perhaps that goes too far and such fans should be thrown out, but punishing the team accomplishes nothing. IN Mexico they chant Osama, Osama when team USA plays there. What then? Kick Mexico out of FIFA? I think that's pretty insulting given our 3K deaths at the hands of Osama Bin Laden, but Team Mexico has nothing to do with it at all. Throw the whole stadium out on their hineys?

Crowd control is needed to allow everyone's enjoyment. Boorish fans should be given a warning or thrown out if the persist, but punishing the team goes too far.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
So it's which ever one puts black on white racism in the best light then. There is no excuse for racist remarks from anyone with the proviso that the racism of the powerful is obviously more detrimental to it's target population than vice-versa.

No, its the meaning of a word, that happens to be racist, which I am interested in.
As I stated, in America, african slaves would have been ignorant of any european usage of the word.

Originally posted by spurs73
I disagree with you on a number of points.
When you go to a football match- you pay for your ticket- so why should be sit there for ninty minutes had have to hear fans calling each other and the players by the N word or throwing bananas at balck players or giving nazi salutes?

It is because of this type of behiviour that certain laws/rules were brought i ...[text shortened]... ciety go hand in hand- you cant have one rule for sports and another for other social activities

Its this manipulation that causes such people to revel in using racial remarks! If people simply stopped letting it get under their skin it would no longer be able to manipulate them. Words are just words and people, in that atmosphere, are going to say whatever they can to get in the heads of the opposing team. Thats a fact of competitive life.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Its this manipulation that causes such people to revel in using racial remarks! If people simply stopped letting it get under their skin it would no longer be able to manipulate them. Words are just words and people, in that atmosphere, are going to say whatever they can to get in the heads of the opposing team. Thats a fact of competitive life.

I agree entirely! People need to grow up and stop listening and reacting. Remember Materazzi, final 06? WE all still wonder what he said to Zidane, but we all know the outcome!

Originally posted by tomtom232
Its this manipulation that causes such people to revel in using racial remarks! If people simply stopped letting it get under their skin it would no longer be able to manipulate them. Words are just words and people, in that atmosphere, are going to say whatever they can to get in the heads of the opposing team. Thats a fact of competitive life.

if onley life was so simple!
I think you have to exprience it to see what it feels like to hear monkey chants everytime a black player touches the ball or see white fans throwing bananas at black players.

bit simplestic to say 'dont let it get under your skin'

Originally posted by spurs73
if onley life was so simple!
I think you have to exprience it to see what it feels like to hear monkey chants everytime a black player touches the ball or see white fans throwing bananas at black players.

bit simplestic to say 'dont let it get under your skin'

So do you think racism is on the increase? Do you think it is worse now than during reconstruction in the USA, for example, when the KKK was born and many blacks were lynched? Or has it decreased. I wonder how black people got on in life before the do gooder whites decided they needed defending? I'll cite a prime example. Dunbar high in turn of the century Washington DC produced more PhD's than any white high school and was preeminent amongst USA high schools until the do gooders got ahold of it and ruined it. Many of these PhD's would return and teach at their high school and motivate the kids to do well. Once the leftists decided this was not good enough and instituted their curricula of "touchy feely" crap they transformed it into a mess! The gentle racism of lowered expectations crept in and Dunbar is now a hellhole!

http://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

Originally posted by spurs73
if onley life was so simple!
I think you have to exprience it to see what it feels like to hear monkey chants everytime a black player touches the ball or see white fans throwing bananas at black players.

bit simplestic to say 'dont let it get under your skin'

Life is so simple. It is people that make it complicated.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Life is so simple. It is people that make it complicated.

Exactly!