29 Nov 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI thought this thread was about "cheaters" not being allowed in the Hall of Fame. Everyone knew Gaylord Perry and others were throwing balls with foreign substances on them, yet these players were allowed in the Hall of Fame. Care to tell me what is the difference between them and McGwire? Care to tell me what "fradulent deception" McGwire engaged in?
However, [b]fraudulent deception in baseball is not usually accepted or even allowed. One of your examples, Gaylord Perry, was ejected for throwing a spitball.
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/P/Perry_Gaylord.stm
Rick Honeycutt of the LA Dodgers got caught using a thumbtack to scratch the cover of the ball, and was ...[text shortened]... creation and enforcement of rules shows that baseball in fact wishes to condemn such behavior.[/b]
29 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderIMO, Perry should not have been inducted into the Hall if it was so obvious he was a cheat. But that vote was 15 years ago, and it's a bit late to speak of undoing it now.
I thought this thread was about "cheaters" not being allowed in the Hall of Fame. Everyone knew Gaylord Perry and others were throwing balls with foreign substances on them, yet these players were allowed in the Hall of Fame. Care to tell me what is the difference between them and McGwire? Care to tell me what "fradulent deception" McGwire engaged in?
McGwire deceived and defrauded fans by claiming that weight training was the source of his newfound strength. He knew damn well his big Home Run race wouldn't have gone over with fans if he admitted he was on the juice. He refused to testify before Congress (essentially pleading the 5th). He used a federally banned substance (thereby violating one of those inconvenient rules outside of baseball).
Edit: Looks like there have been federal criminal penalties for use of 'roids starting in 1988:
http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/08/baseballs-steroid-era-timeline.html
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemObviously fans weren't "cheated" of anything. The home run chase probably was the biggest reason baseball rebounded after the mid 1990's strike. I doubt most fans would have cared; it's mostly self-righteous whiny sportswriters even now doing the bellyaching.
IMO, Perry should not have been inducted into the Hall if it was so obvious he was a cheat. But that vote was 15 years ago, and it's a bit late to speak of undoing it now.
McGwire deceived and defrauded fans by claiming that weight training was the source of his newfound strength. He knew damn well his big Home Run race wouldn't have gone over with ...[text shortened]... ing in 1988:
http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/08/baseballs-steroid-era-timeline.html
Guess I missed McGwire's indictment, trial, conviction and sentencing. I think Babe Ruth and most of the players in the 20's used a "federally banned substance".
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by Bobla45If they are going to let people like Bonds get in or even McGuire, then they need to let someone like Pete Rose in! Pete Rose deserves it just as much as some of these guys today if not more!
McGwire cant get in, but not for the obvious reason. Big Mac is dirty to be sure, but the average fan can forgive him because he put a charge back in the game. But if they slide him in, they have to put Bonds in too. And there is no way that is going to happen. So tough luck Mark
30 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemNo one said it did. However, YOU made this point as part of your justification for claiming Mac is a "cheater":
You mean alcohol? Alcohol doesn't enhance athletic ability - quite the opposite, in fact.
He used a federally banned substance (thereby violating one of those inconvenient rules outside of baseball).
The same rationale could be applied to those players (probably 90% of those playing in the 20's) who used alcohol during Prohibition. It was an "inconvenient rule outside of baseball" wasn't it?
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by no1marauderYes, as part of the justification, not all of it. I wouldn't call a marijuana-using player a cheat, but I might call him a criminal. The key difference is that there is no evidence that marijuana improves performance on the field.
No one said it did. However, YOU made this point as part of your justification for claiming Mac is a "cheater":
He used a federally banned substance (thereby violating one of those inconvenient rules outside of baseball).
The same rationale could be applied to those players (probably 90% of those playing in the 20's) who used alcohol during Prohibition. It was an "inconvenient rule outside of baseball" wasn't it?
01 Dec 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemThat's "key" how again? Actually, steroids don't improve performance on the field either.
Yes, as part of the justification, not all of it. I wouldn't call a marijuana-using player a cheat, but I might call him a criminal. The key difference is that there is no evidence that marijuana improves performance on the field.
01 Dec 06
you gotta be kidding steriods don't improve perfromance. I guess Ben Johnson just risked his career and health and set a world record in the 100 and it was a coincidence that he tested positive. McGwire and Bonds and Sosa just magically started hitting 60+ homers a season.