- Joined
- 02 Feb 06
- Moves
- 123634
04 Apr 08
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeDanny Ainge.
Who do you think is more responsible for this phenomenal single season turnaround, KG or Danny Ainge?
He went out and got KG but first he had to lay the groundwork to do so. He had to accumulate the necessary trading chips to be able to aquire KG. He also had to make the move to get Ray Allen in order to convince KG to agree to come to Boston. Add to that a couple of nice draft picks and minor aquisitions (Rondo, Glen Davis, Powe).
If there were a GM of the year award then Ainge would be the guy.
10 Apr 08
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeOK Mr. Wizard. Let's talk about supporting casts. Obviously you think Kobe is the MVP. I said I felt Kobe was the second best choice next to T-Mac. Kobe has always been the same ball hog that you accuse LeBron of being. Kobe isn't happy if Kobe doesn't make his points...fact! That is why Shaq was ushered out of town...to appease Kobe and get him more touches....fact! Phil Jackson despises Kobe, but puts up with him because Jerry Buss wants Kobe to put butts in the seats. The Lakers got a HUGE break when the stole Pau Gasol. That will propel them into the playoffs and a most likely meeting with the Rockets in the first round (although all of the standings can shuffle drastically in a day in the West).
Another player who doesn't deserve the MVP is T-Mac. Are you kidding me? T-Mac?! T-Mac has hardly carried his team this year like my four MVP candidates have: KG, Kobe, CP3, Manu.
When Yao went down, everyone heaped the dirt onto the Rockets season. T-Mac was their only scorer many nights during the streak. BTW, the only players who can ever say they played in a streak as long were the 72 Lakers. Kobe hasn't done it. Boston with KJ and Ray Allen, Pierce, Rondo, et al hasn't done it. San Antonio has done it with all of their studs. The Rockets didn't play the sisters of the poor every night of their streak. Let's see, they beat Kobe's Lakers (with Kobe but without Gasol). They beat Charlotte with Chris Paul and cast. It was a tremendous accomplishment. Of course the Rockets had other players step up and help out, but T-Mac was the glue that held them together. If you don't believe that, take T-Mac out of that lineup and tell me how far you think they would go...not very.
KG is a great player, but he has a great supporting cast that can, and has, won without him in the lineup, and probably would do quite well if he went down for the year.
The same arguement on Ginobli. Great supporting cast, but I agree that he has become a catalyst there.
LeBron is Cleveland. Granted, I don't believe he is the MVP, but I believe that he is the best player in the league. There has been raging debates for years about the difference between Player of the Year and MVP. There should be two awards to make this distinction, but there aren't, so you are going to have to contend with LeBron in the MVP voting.
With all of this taken into consideration, it is my opinion that T-Mac is the most deserving of the award because without him, the Rockets would not have made the playoffs....period!! The only other player you can say this about is Kobe, and I already said he is the only player that I believe could beat T-Mac.
10 Apr 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitHmm, where do I start? Well first off, no, Kobe isn't a ball hog and he never really has. Kobe actually played point most of the time during the Championship Years when Shaq was still around, and this year he has limited his own shot attempts in order to get his teammates more involved. As a result, the Lakers are one of the best offensive teams this year. Kobe was the first Laker to try and get Bynum more involved in the offense this year. Just look at Andrew's progression during the early part of the season, his numbers increase monthly as the rest of the team bought onto what Kobe was doing and started emulating his alley opp plays. Oh, and Phil loves Kobe because he does exactly what he asks him to do. Earlier this year, was Phil mad at Kobe for shooting 40 something times in the OT victory over Seattle, or was he mad at the other Lakers for not stepping up and helping Kobe? Why don't you go over all of Phil's interviews this year and then tell me if you still think that Phil dislikes Kobe. And about Pau, yes it was a steal to acquire him but the Lakers still lack depth at the center position and this weakness was exposed when Pau went down with that ankle injury last month. Thats why it is crucial that Bynum comes back in time for the playoffs.
OK Mr. Wizard...
About LeBron, I love the guy and I really wish he would have won a ring last year. No, I don't think he is a ballhog, but I do think he is immature and has tried to pad his stats various times throughout the season. Thats why his numbers don't necessarily make him a candidate for the MVP in my book. Historically, all MVP's since Moses Malone have been on teams of 50+ wins, and LeBron's Cavs aren't going to attain that this year therefore he shouldn't get the MVP.
As far as the question of whether or not the Rockets would make the playoffs if T-Mac was injured? I think that can be said about a lot of teams in the West. I mean look at Dallas, Los Angeles, and San Antonio, each team has been in jeopardy of missing the playoffs because of key injuries (Dirk, Bynum, Kobe, Pau, Duncan, Parker). So I really don't think that is a strong argument because it can be applied to so many teams and players. I think a better argument would be that a player made his team plagued with injuries a championship contender. This can be applied to T-Mac, I guess..., since his co-star Yao went down with injury, but really, like I said before, Houston's win streak was primarily due to Coach Adelman and the role players. This has actually been one of T-Mac's down seasons statistically, so no, I don't think he deserves the MVP at all. Kobe, on the other hand, has been playing through many injuries throughout the entire year and hasn't missed a single game, plus, the Lakers as a whole has been plagued with injuries all year (everyone except for Jordan Farmar, Ronny, and Mbenga...and I guess Newble too...) and they are still a championship contender. Not to mention Kobe has been having a season similar to the past few "Shaq-less" years while limiting his shot attempts. I mean the basic difference between this year and the previous years is that Kobe actually has a significant amount of wins this year. So that is my reasoning of why Kobe > T-Mac this year.
As far as who is a lock for this year's MVP, believe or not I don't think its Kobe yet. CP3 also has a legitimate chance at winning the award. Both players are very similar in that they basically do it all for their teams on both ends of the court. And they are both putting up some pretty sick numbers. So for me, it all depends on how the season finishes. Right now, I have CP3 slightly ahead of Kobe in the race, but that is only because he has the number 1 seed in the Western Conference. But you never know what can happen and since I am a Laker fan I want Kobe to win the award.
About LeBron being the best player in the game, no, not yet. Its still Kobe, case closed.
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitFirst off Chirs Paul and cast are in NEW ORLEANS and David West missed those games due to ankle injury.
OK Mr. Wizard. Let's talk about supporting casts. Obviously you think Kobe is the MVP. I said I felt Kobe was the second best choice next to T-Mac. Kobe has always been the same ball hog that you accuse LeBron of being. Kobe isn't happy if Kobe doesn't make his points...fact! That is why Shaq was ushered out of town...to appease Kobe and get him more to ...[text shortened]... ut is Kobe, and I already said he is the only player that I believe could beat T-Mac.
11 Apr 08
1 edit
The idea that KG's supporting cast is soooooooo much stronger than Houston, or the Lakers or the Spurs is ridiculous. Pierce is one of the 20 best players in the NBA and Ray Allen is a great shooter who's been on quite a few All-Star teams (though as a replacement the last two years). As for the rest, before this year started I don't think a single player on the Celts would have been rated in the top 100 players in the NBA. I think the closest analogy is to when Steve Nash went to Phoenix in 2004 and turned a lottery team into a championship contender; he was awarded the MVP even though he only averaged 18.8 ppg. And Garnett's team has a much greater improvement in wins than that Phoenix team did.
If New Orleans maintains the #1 spot in the West, Paul might win it. But KG deserves it.
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by no1marauderDo y'all want to know the real reason why the Celtics have had the best turnaround season ever in the history of the NBA? The real reason behind the Celitcs' big turnaround is because the only returning starter from last year's team, Paul Pierce, only played half the season last year do to injuries! Of course they were going to have a big turnaround year this season, regardless of the KG/Allen deal. Come on y'all! But you are right no1marauder, Pierce is one of the top 20 players in today's game and has been underrated over the years due to crap teams and a crap conference. Ray Allen? Well he is only the second greatest three point shooter of all time who is head over heels any other active player in the NBA. KG? The man who revolutionized the PF position in today's game leading to more versatile big men. What about the other so called unknown additions to the team? Eddie House, the man who has been labeled as "Instant Offense" in prior seasons. No big deal, he supposedly is also the most quiet of the new bunch. James Posey, didn't that guy get a ring a while ago? No big deal I guess. Rondo has gotten some respect this year. No one even talks about Perkins and how he has outplayed many players this year, one specific guy comes to mind, Andrew Bynum? What about Tony Allen? That guy is pretty decent defensively right? Wasn't that the same guy that had simultaneous ACL and MCL injuries last year?
The idea that KG's supporting cast is soooooooo much stronger than Houston, or the Lakers or the Spurs is ridiculous. Pierce is one of the 20 best players in the NBA and Ray Allen is a great shooter who's been on quite a few All-Star teams (though as a replacement the last two years). As for the rest, before this year started I don't think a single playe ...[text shortened]... If New Orleans maintains the #1 spot in the West, Paul might win it. But KG deserves it.
I mean to me, the whole KG thing is blown out of proportion here. With all of the changes made to this team since last year, I don't think you can pin point their success to just one super star just because he is the biggest name on the team. Why don't we give the MVP to a player that we know has had an impact on his team? Some one like Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant. These two are the obvious choices, hands down.
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeYou're ridiculous. Pierce, Rondo, Perkins AND Tony Allen were all on last year's terrible team. The Celtics weren't going to make the playoffs last year when Pierce was playing.
Do y'all want to know the real reason why the Celtics have had the best turnaround season ever in the history of the NBA? The real reason behind the Celitcs' big turnaround is because the only returning starter from last year's team, Paul Pierce, only played half the season last year do to injuries! Of course they were going to have a big turnaround y ...[text shortened]... one like Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant. These two are the obvious choices, hands down.
KG has turned around the team and made better players of all of them. Eddie House and James Posey are good role players, but neither would be considered anywhere near the top 100 players in the NBA.
Anybody who follows the Celts KNOWS what a huge impact KG has had on the team. I'm sorry if you Western fans don't pay any attention. And while it was expected that the Celts would be a much better team this year, NO ONE thought that they would run away and have the best record in the league including a 24-5 mark against the "superior" Western conference. KG has impacted the Celts like Nash did to the Suns except more so. That is why he, not Kobe (on a team the Celts thrashed twice) or Paul, deserves the MVP.
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by no1marauderOk, then explain to me how come the T-wolves never won squat while KG was the man? They had a mediocre cast of characters to go with him. That bunch of misfits that surround him in Boston must be better than he had in Minnesota. Or did he just wake up and become an MVP? No, he did not. His cast takes the pressure off of him and allows him the freedom to perform. He cannot carry a team by himself as he showed in Minnesota. So get off your high horse and wake up and smell the coffee!! Garnett is a great player, no doubt, but he is not the MVP. If he wins it it will be a joke.
You're ridiculous. Pierce, Rondo, Perkins AND Tony Allen were all on last year's terrible team. The Celtics weren't going to make the playoffs last year when Pierce was playing.
KG has turned around the team and made better players of all of them. Eddie House and James Posey are good role players, but neither would be considered anywhere nea ...[text shortened]... That is why he, not Kobe (on a team the Celts thrashed twice) or Paul, deserves the MVP.
11 Apr 08
2 edits
Originally posted by shortcircuitUMM, you do realize Garnett won an MVP in Minnesota, don't you? In 2003-04 when he led the Wolves to a 58-24 record that was second best in the league. He also finished 2nd in the MVP voting the year before. So no, he didn't just wake up and become an MVP.
Ok, then explain to me how come the T-wolves never won squat while KG was the man? They had a mediocre cast of characters to go with him. That bunch of misfits that surround him in Boston must be better than he had in Minnesota. Or did he just wake up and become an MVP? No, he did not. His cast takes the pressure off of him and allows him the freedom to ...[text shortened]... e!! Garnett is a great player, no doubt, but he is not the MVP. If he wins it it will be a joke.
You're looking pretty foolish; do you follow the NBA at all?
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by no1marauderLet's just see if history continues. If Garnett wins the MVP, it will be the first time that you ended up correct when we have been on opposite sides of the arguement or in pick'em pools.
UMM, you do realize Garnett won an MVP in Minnesota, don't you? In 2003-04 when he led the Wolves to a 58-24 record that was second best in the league. He also finished 2nd in the MVP voting the year before. So no, he didn't just wake up and become an MVP.
You're looking pretty foolish; do you follow the NBA at all?
12 Apr 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitGrow up.
Let's just see if history continues. If Garnett wins the MVP, it will be the first time that you ended up correct when we have been on opposite sides of the arguement or in pick'em pools.
You want to wager who finishes higher in the MVP voting: KG or TMac?