Stop bashing USA sports

Originally posted by Red Night
To review, I think the list of most recognized was, in no particular order:

Ali
Palmer
Pele
Jordan
Ruth

All good names. It is surprising to me that no tennis players make the list. I can think of a dozen names, but not one that stands so clearl yabove the rest. Maybe one of the old Australians?

Yes, I suppose that would be the list USAliens would be most likely to recognise (though it beats me how Dr. Ruth comes to be termed a sportswoman); but I think you'll find that that is just another way in which that country has only a tenuous grasp on reality in the rest of the world.
As for tennis players, you could do worse than that Switzer who is doing rather well currently. Or if you insist on someone who is likely to be at all known on the distaff side of the herring pond, that boring hard-hitter Sampras. Jimmy Connors is also still pretty popular, I believe.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Yes, I suppose that would be the list USAliens would be most likely to recognise (though it beats me how Dr. Ruth comes to be termed a sportswoman); but I think you'll find that that is just another way in which that country has only a tenuous grasp on reality in the rest of the world.
As for tennis players, you could do worse than that Switzer who is ...[text shortened]... t boring hard-hitter Sampras. Jimmy Connors is also still pretty popular, I believe.

Richard

There are two problems.

First the list is wrong.

Second it is a list of recognised.

As the US hypes stars and exports its cultural Icons in a way no other country comes close to, it is easy to think these names are famous for their talent.

In reality people know Jordan as the guy who helped Bugs Bunny save the universe and has magic trainers that help in jump tall buildings.

The numbers who have watched him play a complete basketball match would be miniscule compared to those who have seen Zidane or Maradona.

Originally posted by petrosianpupil
There are two problems.

First the list is wrong.

Second it is a list of recognised.

As the US hypes stars and exports its cultural Icons in a way no other country comes close to, it is easy to think these names are famous for their talent.

In reality people know Jordan as the guy who helped Bugs Bunny save the universe and has magic train ...[text shortened]... complete basketball match would be miniscule compared to those who have seen Zidane or Maradona.

I take it you are under 35. One of the things I have noticed with your generation is an absolute concentration on current celebrity.

Zidane, the switzer, maradona.

Frankly, I think you would have been better off mentioning Beckham or better still Tiger.

The thing is will someone like Zidane stand the test of time? Will he be remembered 70 years after his playing carreer ends like Ruth? (The guy is still an adjective all over the world.)

That is why I left current players off the list. Many popular atheletes fade into obscurity once their playing days are over. Some fall into notoriety.

Pele and Ali have stood the test. Let's with hold judgement on your current stars until time has had the opportunity to judge them.

Originally posted by Red Night
I take it you are under 35. One of the things I have noticed with your generation is an absolute concentration on current celebrity.

Zidane, the switzer, maradona.

Frankly, I think you would have been better off mentioning Beckham or better still Tiger.

The thing is will someone like Zidane stand the test of time? Will he be remembered 70 year ...[text shortened]... t's with hold judgement on your current stars until time has had the opportunity to judge them.

You are going senile and showing your age with your ignorance.
Your list is both not a world list and even if it was it would still be wrong.

Ali - Well you left him off your first list, just happens to be the most famous sportsman ever.
Palmer - Only won 7 majors, woods has 12. Palmer never won the PGA, Woods held all 4 majors at the same time.
Pele - Even you can get something right.
Jordan - He is world famous, but not followed, hardly anyone outside of USA has watched a game in entirety he has played in.
Ruth - Hardly anyone in Europe could tell you anyhing about this guy, Ruth Chris is more famous, muppet

Jordan, Palmer and Ruth could be replaced by 100's of world famous sportsmen.

Carl Lewis, Aryton Senna, Tiger Woods, Mark Spitz, Mike Tyson, Diego Maradona are just a few really quick examples of sportsmen that have an infinately bigger world appeal that the Jordan, Palmer and Ruth.

What you fail to understand numb nuts is that a person can be more famous in the world sense than they are in their own country.
Ruth is a perfect example, very famous in American History but in World History not that famous at all, Carl Lewis is far more famous in World Terms than Babe Ruth.

Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
You are going senile and showing your age with your ignorance.
Your list is both not a world list and even if it was it would still be wrong.

Ali - Well you left him off your first list, just happens to be the most famous sportsman ever.
Palmer - Only won 7 majors, woods has 12. Palmer never won the PGA, Woods held all 4 majors at the same t ...[text shortened]... ld History not that famous at all, Carl Lewis is far more famous in World Terms than Babe Ruth.

I started to read your post, but it gave me a head ache, as usual.

From what i was able to decipher, I first want to thank you for proving my point.

You guys make a big deal about the fact that I left Ali off the first list and then added him before any of you noticed. So what? I never claimed that the list was definitive.

Still no tennis players. Borg? Laver? King?

Carl Lewis??? A good athlete, no doubt. As famous as Jesse Owen or Bruce Jenner?

I'll give you marradona if you really want him. Kruyf, Beckenbauer, Best?

Best is a really interesting one. Like Joe Namath almost as famous for his off the field antics.

Woods is possibly the best example of current players. Maybe the best ever. the thing that would hurt tiger is to have his carreer cut short and to be followed by someone, as yet unknown, even better.

How famous is Ruth? Well, here are a couple of tid-bits:

1. They still make a candy bar named after him.

2. Australian newspapers regularly referred to the greatest cricketeer of all-time, Dan Bradman, as the "babe ruth of cricket."

3. In 1971, an English rock band named themselves "Babe Ruth"

4. During WWII, Japanese soldiers would shout "To hell with Babe Ruth" across the trench lines.

Originally posted by Red Night
I started to read your post, but it gave me a head ache, as usual.

From what i was able to decipher, I first want to thank you for proving my point.

You guys make a big deal about the fact that I left Ali off the first list and then added him before any of you noticed. So what? I never claimed that the list was definitive.

Still no tennis player ing WWII, Japanese soldiers would shout "To hell with Babe Ruth" across the trench lines.

Ok this is some progress, I think its the first time I can answer one of your posts because there are some interesting facts in it.

People keep on mentioning Ali because there are 2 lists when listing the most famous/best sportsmen of all time.
List1: Ali.
List2: Every other sportsman that ever lived.

There isn't a tennis player in the top 5 because although there are many very famous world wide tennis players like you mention, none of them clearly stand out in the sport as head and shoulders above the rest.

Carl Lewis, Jesse Owen, Bruce Jenner are all candidates for beng near the top, remember Lewis was the top world long jumper as well as 100m sprinter and won more gold medals than almost any other athelete ever.

I would leave out Kruyf, Beckenbauer and Best because I don't think they are names hardy any American would have heard of, but many will have heard of Maradona and Pele.

The reason Woods should maybe be in the top 5 (even if his career ended today) is because he has broken almost every record in golf already, the only person to hold all 4 majors and arguably redefined the way the game should be played, his power play has shown the way forward for many players and caused many courses to be redesigned.

Ruth is virtually unknown in many parts of the world today, its because baseball is not a world wide followed sport.
I have watched many sports for years and hardly know anything about him, except he was once a top baseball player and a film was made about him.
Yes he is massively famous in America but not outside of America, people will compare him to cricketers though because the games are vaguely similar.

Babe Ruth is an American Legend.
He will never compare in the world sense though to someone like Ayrton Senna, who died while at the peak of his abilities, robbed of the opportunity to break all records but his legacy will last for ever.

Originally posted by Red Night
I started to read your post, but it gave me a head ache, as usual.

From what i was able to decipher, I first want to thank you for proving my point.

You guys make a big deal about the fact that I left Ali off the first list and then added him before any of you noticed. So what? I never claimed that the list was definitive.

Still no tennis player ...[text shortened]... ing WWII, Japanese soldiers would shout "To hell with Babe Ruth" across the trench lines.

I doubt it helps but I hadn't a clue who this Ruth character was until you mentioned "babe Ruth". I still wouldn't have had a clue who it was but had heard that name. They may make a candy bar with his name in the US but I've never seen one anywhere else.

Carl Lewis, on the other hand, I know. Jesse Owens, I'd agree with. Never heard of Bruce Jenner though,

I don't think Zidane will stand the test of time either though Maradonna will, at least in the UK.

Oh by the way, I'm over 35.

Originally posted by Red Night
I take it you are under 35. One of the things I have noticed with your generation is an absolute concentration on current celebrity.

Zidane, the switzer, maradona.

Frankly, I think you would have been better off mentioning Beckham or better still Tiger.

The thing is will someone like Zidane stand the test of time? Will he be remembered 70 year ...[text shortened]... t's with hold judgement on your current stars until time has had the opportunity to judge them.

I am way over 35 I'm afraid and you missed the point of the post.

Zidane was mentioned precisely because of the points you made.

Zidane WILL fade away despite being the best footballer of his generation and inspiring France to be the best football team on the planet for many years.

He is not as marketable for many reasons, therefore will not be as recognisable.

To mention people like Jenner who is in a sideline of a sport that is ignored by so many just shows how US centric your views are. He was an icon in the US and ignored everywhere else. To achieve in a minority sport is far easier than in the world's greatest game. As I am writing this how many people are dreaming of being the greatest decathlete compared to those who dream of being the wolrd's greatest football player? How many people have access to pole vaulting equipment etc etc etc.

I wouldn't call Maradona a current star.

Originally posted by Red Night
I take it you are under 35. One of the things I have noticed with your generation is an absolute concentration on current celebrity.

Zidane, the switzer, maradona.

Frankly, I think you would have been better off mentioning Beckham or better still Tiger.

The thing is will someone like Zidane stand the test of time? Will he be remembered 70 year ...[text shortened]... t's with hold judgement on your current stars until time has had the opportunity to judge them.

The only reason people have ever heard of Ruth in Europe is from watching films, in which he gets mentioned.
Same as Joe D'Maggio...a name in a Simon and Garfunkel song.

The fact of the matter is that:
Baseball
American Rugby (Football my arse)
Basketball

Are not widely played in Europe or Southern America.
And they're crap to watch.
Cricket is more widely watched than baseball (and they're both basically the same game...both stunning in their boringness).

Basketball is speeded up for people with short attention spans. Considering the average sports fan, I'm amazed that basketball hasn't become more popular. In Europe it's played on schoolyards and that's about it.

American rugby... well. It's rugby Jim, but not as we know it. They're better padded than an asylum. And it's constantly stop, start, stop, start. And the immense boredom of the game is supplemented by chearleaders, proving the point all the more.

Originally posted by shavixmir
The only reason people have ever heard of Ruth in Europe is from watching films, in which he gets mentioned.
Same as Joe D'Maggio...a name in a Simon and Garfunkel song.

The fact of the matter is that:
Baseball
American Rugby (Football my arse)
Basketball

Are not widely played in Europe or Southern America.
And they're crap to watch.
Cric ...[text shortened]... e boredom of the game is supplemented by chearleaders, proving the point all the more.

I apologise, from here on in, American rugby it is.

Originally posted by Wheely
I doubt it helps but I hadn't a clue who this Ruth character was until you mentioned "babe Ruth". I still wouldn't have had a clue who it was but had heard that name. They may make a candy bar with his name in the US but I've never seen one anywhere else.

Carl Lewis, on the other hand, I know. Jesse Owens, I'd agree with. Never heard of Bruce Jenner th ...[text shortened]... of time either though Maradonna will, at least in the UK.

Oh by the way, I'm over 35.

Is Daly Thompson a more recognizable name?

I agree with you on Zidane.

Maradona is a tougher call. I'm not sure.

Is Jackie Robinson a name you recognize?

Dimaggio is an interesting one too.

It helps to be mentioned or appear in a popular song or movie.

I think here in the states, beckham became known more because of his wife and the movie than his play at man U. (Obvoiously, US soccer fans would have know about his play.)

Originally posted by shavixmir
The only reason people have ever heard of Ruth in Europe is from watching films, in which he gets mentioned.
Same as Joe D'Maggio...a name in a Simon and Garfunkel song.

The fact of the matter is that:
Baseball
American Rugby (Football my arse)
Basketball

Are not widely played in Europe or Southern America.
And they're crap to watch.
Cric ...[text shortened]... e boredom of the game is supplemented by chearleaders, proving the point all the more.

Good god already.

get some new material.

American football may have evolved from rugby. I don't know. They looked more similiar in the early days of football.

Calling football rugby cheapens both games.

Cricket is not watched by more people...absolute rubbish. Baseball is a world sport. It is played in the Olympics. Cricket appeared in the Olympics only once. In 1924. Two teams were entered. An English team and a team of clerks from the British embassy in Paris, "representing" france. England won the Gold....wooo hoo.


A more interesting discussion might center around the similiarities between the two types of games.

Game one. Two teams fight to move an object the size of a small animal across or into a goal. Each team always has 11 participants, even those versions invented in the america's before the arrival of Europeans.

Game two: Involves hitting a rock like object with a stick. The prominence of the numbers 9 and 18 in these games is interesting.


Basketball is the only purely invented game.

Every other game is a corruption of one of the two listed above.

Originally posted by shavixmir

have a clue before you comment.

The only reason people have ever heard of Ruth in Europe is from watching films, in which he gets mentioned.
Same as Joe D'Maggio...a name in a Simon and Garfunkel song.

not true but i couldn't find the ratings to prove it.

The fact of the matter is that:
Baseball
American Rugby (Football my arse)
Basketball

Are not widely played in Europe or Southern America.
And they're crap to watch.

funny for a sport (basketball) not widely played in south america, argentina did alright winning the olympics. and who did they beat in the final, the usa? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO the euro league played its part in that 1.

baseball isn't played much in europe, there is a european cup but its not popular. american football always has been popular though, every year in scotland there's a flag football event for (thinks its) 6-18 year olds which is getting bigger every year. plus nfl europe's always been about, not as strong as it used to be but as least its still there. the ratings for the superbowl are always huge in europe.

Cricket is more widely watched than baseball (and they're both basically the same game...both stunning in their boringnessness).

dunno, close one. england, aus, south africa, west indies, pakistan and india mostly watching cricket and the us, japan, central america and korea mostly watching baseball. how many people in those countries can afford to regurally sit and watch a game though? not many in a few of them i bet. wouldn't mind seeing the world vivaing figures for that actually.

Basketball is speeded up for people with short attention spans. Considering the average sports fan, I'm amazed that basketball hasn't become more popular. Inishrope it's played on schoolyards and that's about it.

its not popular because its crap to watch, even in america the ratings are falling. it is played in europe though, the euro league.

American rugby... well. It's rugby Jim, but not as we know it. They're better padded than an asylum. And it's constantly stop, start, stop, start. And the immense boredom of the game is supplemented by chearleaders, proving the point all the more.

you have problems, if you don't like something that so many people do shop whining about it and be happy you're from a country that would rather sit in a pub scratching their arse while watching a soccer (😛) game.

btw boringness? wtf is that?

Originally posted by Red Night
Cricket is not watched by more people...absolute rubbish. Baseball is a world sport. It is played in the Olympics. Cricket appeared in the Olympics only once. In 1924. Two teams were entered. An English team and a team of clerks from the British embassy in Paris, "representing" france. England won the Gold....wooo hoo.

baseball isn't a world sport. it isn't in the olympics any more dude, check out the sports list for london 2012.

cricket isn't in he olympics for the same reason baseball was taken out and why rugby will ever be an olympic sport, they're not global enough.

Originally posted by trevor33
baseball isn't a world sport. it isn't in the olympics any more dude, check out the sports list for london 2012.

cricket isn't in he olympics for the same reason baseball was taken out and why rugby will ever be an olympic sport, they're not global enough.

The english took baseball out of the olympics?