Is it me?

Originally posted by roma45
there is no hiding place for your cheating
you will be exposed

let me amend that, 'wrecked by the good for nuthin rustbuckets and their flunkies'.

Originally posted by finnegan
Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them.
Now I simply never match up players of very different ratings at the start of any match and I am confident the ...[text shortened]... come and that is reflected in our inglorious ranking among the clans. It is not the same at all.

"Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them."

How long have you been on this site? Welcome to the phenomenon known as sandbagging. When combined with a clan playing another clan who gives them points for free, that clan creates a situation where they cannot be caught by other clan leaders using heretofore 'honest' and 'fair' matchups. This creation of an 'unfair advantage' is the reason cheating is so popular. The wise clan leader will take this situation into consideration when creating clan challenges. Careful scrutiny of the individual players' stats is needed to protect your own players from getting saddled with playing another player who is far stronger than their rating suggests. Unfortunately, the rules at this website concerning clan challenges assumes that clans and clan leaders will always play their best chess in an attempt to beat other clans on the board rather than through deceit and trickery, and this has created a situation where one clan is reaping points from other colluding clans, and so now other clans have attempted to jump on board the bandwagon and get some 'easy points' this way themselves. This throws the entire system into disarray, until you have the situation we have now, where four clans (three 'feeder' clans feeding their points to one 'beneficiary' clan) are attempting to ruin the clan system, either by attempting to create an unassailable lead in clan points, or to cause other clan leaders to 'give up' in disgust and leave the site. The sad part is that now, we are seeing other clans now using this same 'blueprint' in an attempt to 'ride the coattails' of these cheater clans and this produces clans with far more points than they would ordinarily get under 'normal' circumstances. Corruption to this degree produces, as a side effect, the mentality that sandbagging, which has always been a problem here, is now seen as only a relatively minor 'stair-step' to further artificially raise clan points.

And now you know why my clan is called The Misfits. Clearly, we don't belong here, with our anachronistic ideas of honesty, fair play and integrity. And now you know why some clans here have been trying to find a solution, because this isn't the way clan play used to be here and I doubt that the clan system was created with these kinds of shenanigans in mind. The site admins could easily solve the problem by permanently banning the clan leaders who are trying to ruin the clan system, but either they do not care, or they think that we (the clan leaders) will solve their problem for them. The real problem is that there are not enough clan leaders here who respect earning of clan points the 'old-fashioned' way and they would rather jump on board the cheating train for a free ride up the ranking list.

So join the party. If you have a solution, we'd all love to hear it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
[b]"Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them."

How long have you been on this site? Welcome to the phenomenon known as sandbagging. When combined ...[text shortened]... de up the ranking list.

So join the party. If you have a solution, we'd all love to hear it.[/b]

Obviously the administration of this site don't give a rats ass if this site becomes a complete joke and the laughing stock for other chess sites.

They look like the keystone cops bumbling around banning people from posting in forums while the whole site disappears down the S bend.

In some ways I can't blame carrobie and co for the way they are blatantly ruining this site. Carrobie personally doesn't care about winning the clan championship, he is making a statement, one which he thought would be squashed by admin by now, but to his amazement admin have not had the balls (or the brains) to see through his charade and act accordingly. Fair dinkum, blind Freddy could see more than the people running this show.

Once the clan system is left smouldering away in tatters carrobie and his cohorts will move onto other parts of this site.

RIP RHP !!!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
tournaments might have some bearing on it. Players play tournaments and they get pummelled by higher rated players. There is no real way to set up a fair challenge, it sounds too risky.

Getting pummelled by higher reated players is my lot in life but that is how the rating system is intended to work - what joy when I rarely defeat the stronger player.

It is being pummelled by lower rated players that brings a player's rating down surely and causes the confusion I described?

Originally posted by Suzianne
[b]"Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them."

How long have you been on this site? Welcome to the phenomenon known as sandbagging. When combined ...[text shortened]... de up the ranking list.

So join the party. If you have a solution, we'd all love to hear it.[/b]

Thanks for that long response. I do not recall our clan playing the Misfits - must have a look shortly. [Looked - not accepting challenges. Never mind]

What I find most confusing is to understand the motivation behind falsifying a clan's ratings. That amount of ducking and diving for what reward??

My own preferred solution for a time was that our clan took a big interest in the clan leagues. I am not sure that falsifying ratings would yield you any particular benefits there. Teams don't play based on ratings but simply based on which division your clan is in. I always thought the Ireland clan did surprisingly well in leagues and I suspect it was because there was no scope for our rivals to beat the system. In turn, that led me to wonder just how our rivals managed to do so extraordinarily well in clan challenges. We sort of know the answer.

So my solution is to play the leagues - which would be fine only there are none any more.

I am surprised at that - I always found leagues quite exciting and far less weird. Plus for a while there was a decent number of leagues to choose from so there was always a new season coming along. But it seems that is a thing of the past.

Originally posted by finnegan
Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them.
Now I simply never match up players of very different ratings at the start of any match and I am confident the ...[text shortened]... come and that is reflected in our inglorious ranking among the clans. It is not the same at all.

you've simply been a victim of your ineptitude as a clan leader

Originally posted by lemondrop
you've simply been a victim of your ineptitude as a clan leader

Are you a victim of your ineptitude as a reader I wonder? Or just generally unpleasant?

There is a phrase often used that goes "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." As you will notice from my post, I considered a fresh challenge for that clan and drew back because I was disconcerted by the data.

I will generally accept challenges with any clan as long as they make sense and I do not boycott the top clans - I just check out the ratings, as I did in this case. I even enjoy clan challenges with clan leaders that I have been quarrelling with on the forums. What goes on in the forums stays in the forums and need not pollute my games. (But I do get fed up if they beat me too badly!)

Originally posted by finnegan
Are you a victim of your ineptitude as a reader I wonder? Or just generally unpleasant?

There is a phrase often used that goes "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." As you will notice from my post, I considered a fresh challenge for that clan and drew back because I was disconcerted by the data.

I will generally accept challenge ...[text shortened]... ys in the forums and need not pollute my games. (But I do get fed up if they beat me too badly!)

Do not worry what he lemonwedge says....he is the biggest asshat at RHP.

Originally posted by finnegan
Looking at recent clan results, I noticed that my clan (Ireland) was defeated by Chess Troopers, but their players had strikingly low ratings compared to their opponents in my clan. Based on rating differences, Ireland should have crushed them.
Now I simply never match up players of very different ratings at the start of any match and I am confident the ...[text shortened]... come and that is reflected in our inglorious ranking among the clans. It is not the same at all.

Clan challenged 24 April 16
Itsallzen last moved 17 Feb 16

You lost this challenge by two points. That's your answer right there. Inactive player in the challenge. Oops.

Originally posted by Ragwort
Clan challenged 24 April 16
Itsallzen last moved 17 Feb 16

You lost this challenge by two points. That's your answer right there. Inactive player in the challenge. Oops.

the loss was squarely a result of the ineptitude of the clan leader
it is the duty, mostly a necessity of a clan leader to make sure his players are active
the use of an inactive player does not bode well

Originally posted by lemondrop
you've simply been a victim of your ineptitude as a clan leader

I cannot let this pass. If you look at Finnegans record as leader over the years, he has brought us in very close to 0 on most years. In other words he has been a true champion at organising fair challenges. If we had a few more leaders like Finnegan, the clan challenges would not be be in the sorry mess it now finds itself .

Originally posted by Bull McCabe
I cannot let this pass. If you look at Finnegans record as leader over the years, he has brought us in very close to 0 on most years. In other words he has been a true champion at organising fair challenges. If we had a few more leaders like Finnegan, the clan challenges would not be be in the sorry mess it now finds itself .

I can only reference this particular challenge
Finnegan used an inactive player
an over site at the least
he is a good leader I'm sure
but not in this case

Originally posted by lemondrop
I can only reference this particular challenge
Finnegan used an inactive player
an over site at the least
he is a good leader I'm sure
but not in this case

also I would like to add
it is the duty of a competent clan leader to be able to evaluate players accordingly
a little vetting will show the sandbaggers
those players you avoid
while at the same time
slip in a couple of your own players playing below their true strength
that is what a good clan leader does

Originally posted by lemondrop
also I would like to add
it is the duty of a competent clan leader to be able to evaluate players accordingly
a little vetting will show the sandbaggers
those players you avoid
while at the same time
slip in a couple of your own players playing below their true strength
that is what a good clan leader does

Oh I'm not claiming to be a good clan leader. I cannot stand the cult of leaders.

The idea that as a clan leader I have duties is absurd. I think there is another thread about absurdity somewhere (spirituality). Pay me and I will consider having a duty. An arrangement in which clan leaders have duties and responsibilities in exchange for bog all is not a fair contract.

A little vetting may indeed reveal sandbaggers. A little more vetting seems to show a few more sandbaggers. Who knows what a lot of vetting might show. Your post implies that I should accept the presence of sandbaggers as normal. I have a better idea. I think sandbaggers are creeps and I just set up simple challenges with the information I am given. I have no time or interest for vetting of the kind you advocate. That may make me a poor clan leader in your book, but that is beside the point - it is not me that is the cheating creep.

If I were to disregard Itsallzen in the challenge under discussion, nothing would change. My opening questions would remain valid. Itsallzen's rating has slumped to 1493 as a result of a string of timeouts, but it has not slumped as low as his opponent's, which has fallen to 1360. Why is that? All down the list, the Ireland ratings are higher than those of their opponents. What I was saying (however ineptly) is that, if I were to match up the same opponents for a rematch, the ratings would suggest that Ireland had a grossly unfair advantage, yet the opposing team had just defeated Ireland. That is mad.

I have been losing motivation this year and you are quite right, Itsallzen slipped quietly off the radar sometime around the beginning of March, not telling me and not altering his settings, and I did not pick this up for a while. I don't know why and hopefully he is ok. All the same it is a pain in the butt when players walk away like that. The Chess Troopers games were set up on 23 April, by which time there had been a number of timeouts to alert me had I been watching more closely. I think I should be given a firm written warning and maybe loosen my arthritic grip on power in favour of that younger and more energetic talent which is crying out for the opportunity to become top dog when I stand aside.

I sometimes wonder - what are the qualities of a good clan leader and how might I aspire to improve in order to emulate such a model.

No I don't.

Originally posted by finnegan
Oh I'm not claiming to be a good clan leader. I cannot stand the cult of leaders.

The idea that as a clan leader I have duties is absurd. I think there is another thread about absurdity somewhere (spirituality). Pay me and I will consider having a duty. An arrangement in which clan leaders have duties and responsibilities in exchange for bog all is ...[text shortened]... clan leader and how might I aspire to improve in order to emulate such a model.

No I don't.

fair enough
good luck to your clan