@vespin saidGood to see some sensible debate taking place in this forum.
That was the best way of explaining it in my opinion. In my case I have been on about 12 years. I know 98% of all the clan members, and I know all the leaders.
In some cases I know some a little better then others. Rusty is also correct that some things that have been going on can only be spoken about in a PM. Although I have no idea what he may be talking about, and I a ...[text shortened]... an be used as a tool, but a great way to make a final choice on a match. But still not a bad tool.
Regarding your comments about knowing who matches well against who,that is fair enough but don't you think it becomes a bit boring that way?
I used to actively seek out new clans or clans with new players just to add some variety to the contests.That also takes time of course.Sadly players in these categories were few and far between.I don't expect it has improved over the last five years or so but maybe you know different?
I agree ratings aren't the best guide to a players ability but that's all we have to go on without delving into a players win percentage,timeout wins etc which is far too time consuming.
You could say playing in any team sport,you come across the same players repeatedly,even in OTB chess but I don't think it's a fair comparison to correspondence chess which, in effect this site is.On a field of play,such as crown green bowls which I play,any player ,no matter how good ,can have an off day.
I'm not good enough for it to make a difference!!
@venda saidI believe knowing your opponents true rating and your own players true rating are very important when it comes to making Challenge matches not boring at all. In fact I think it is an important part when making Clan Challenges. This way you can make a very good choice on who should be paired up against each other.
Good to see some sensible debate taking place in this forum.
Regarding your comments about knowing who matches well against who,that is fair enough but don't you think it becomes a bit boring that way?
I used to actively seek out new clans or clans with new players just to add some variety to the contests.That also takes time of course.Sadly players in these categories were f ...[text shortened]... player ,no matter how good ,can have an off day.
I'm not good enough for it to make a difference!!
I believe I've said this before the person's rating doesn't always tell the whole story. If you play a lower rated opponent who knows the offence or defense better than you do then a pretty good chance you will lose that game if you make a bad move in the game. I've won games in openings of course they didn't finish until up in the 30's but the game can be won or lost in openings. I always try and get out of book as soon as possible as my opponent may know the line better than I do.
I've been with Metallica now since late 2008 and am closing in on 1600 around 1575 games won for clan which is a little over 100 a year. My rating isn't that high and I am probably considered a less than average player, but have won against much higher rated opponents because of the style of play or by them assuming they have the game won before the game even starts. As we all know only too well any of us can lose a game over one wrong move.
I do enjoy the challenge in the games, but don't want to feel like I am over whelmed in a game. Having fun is the most important thing which I do win or lose. I never get angry with my opponent and am my own worst critic. I don't like people commenting when I happen to drop a Queen especially when they haven't talked the whole game. Then when you miss your Queen hanging say 'oops' or something similar. I don't think it shows good sportsmanship.
I've played the same player(s) many times over the years and have some good on going competitions with them. We don't talk a lot, but do enjoy our games against each other. I don't want to name any names but I think they already know who they are. Agreed everyone can have an "off day'!
-VR
@venda saidI agree with what you said. And you said it better then I did. And no, I don't know differently, and certainly don't know better. In fact I have an advantage. Due to my health I have a lot of time. So it is so easy for me to see a player like RunningScared or SirLurch (my spelling is probably wrong) and understand no matter what their rating is, I know how good they really are and who they should play in my clan. The problem is, only a few leaders will match them properly when their ratings are low. Those leaders are wonderful to work with.
Good to see some sensible debate taking place in this forum.
Regarding your comments about knowing who matches well against who,that is fair enough but don't you think it becomes a bit boring that way?
I used to actively seek out new clans or clans with new players just to add some variety to the contests.That also takes time of course.Sadly players in these categories were f ...[text shortened]... player ,no matter how good ,can have an off day.
I'm not good enough for it to make a difference!!
The ones who want to take them who's ability is 1600's and play them against my 1300's ability players. Then take me as stupid that I don't know the difference.
Also it is boring a lot. I want to play every clan, but the problem is what people spoke of. People look for an edge. I have no issue with that. People want to win. I get it. Not everyone will set up a match to be equal and let fate do the rest as I do when setting up a match.
Both you and Rusty made great points. And I also feel like you do a lot of the times. Rusty mentioned, and I hope I get this right, that knowing your players, and your opponents as well, is really the best way. The problem is, most of you have lives, and this is all for fun just like it was designed to be.
I just happen to have more time then most. So when I see a challenge that is so bad, I don't explain anything, I just delete it. Or I love when people use TER as a way of making a match, and for them there is no diversion from this. So I set up a match using TER, and my players have a lower Rating in TER, and they have a lower rating in their clan ratings, and then I send a four man challenge over and it is rejected or not accepted or just deleted.
They realize they are going to lose and lose huge. I do that on purpose showing them that is a tool they can use, but can't be used to make a final choice. Because if they believed in it, and not only when it is convenient for them, they would have accepted my challenge. I have had to many of these. I actually do it their way, and they still have to change it. LMAO
And it is boring at times so I also seek out other clans. I have clans that are in the back pages, give me the hardest time over a one person match. Does that makes sense?? It's not like I sent the world champion over to them. It was a fair match. In fact, in their favor. I do it to start a good relationship with them in the hopes of more matches down the road.
But does not usually work.
Your post was a solid post. Speaking in terms of just chess. Well done.
@very-rusty saidWell, my experience is that it takes me 5 minutes to set up a challenge.
venda,
Option1: Perhaps this is a person who has been a clan leader before and knows all the players as many have been here for years. A good Clan Leader knows his opponents strengths and weaknesses. Someone like that may not be exaggerating the time to make the challenge when they know all the players. ( I should check this out with Shortcircuit) It is my opin ...[text shortened]... not take much longer knowing all the players.
Option 2 is something better for a P.M.! 😉
-VR
I look at the TER and 1 year rating and make the challenge.
I still make a few mistakes even with TER (eg, I set up a challenge with a 1400 player, only to realise later the opponent had a 5 year high of 2200!!!)
I do completely ignore current and 90-day because they are meaningless. What this means is there are a number of players that are 'unchallengeable' because they have current ratings > 200 points than TER
Here's an example
VasuGina
Current rating 1441
lowest 90-day 1202
Highest 90-day 1668
TER 1568
The only relevant rating is clearly TER
As I have said before, until there is a 'CER' then only TER & 90-day is relevant. Using these I don't need to work on 'gut feel' or 'I know all the players'.
So, 5 minutes is all it takes me ... and that is a fact
18 Apr 21
@vespin saidIts interesting when I look back on IVV challenges last year (pages 12+) I see so many completely unfair challenges issued resulting in IVV being battered so many times by all the page one clans. Thats why the net was -144 and we were on page 5.
I agree with what you said. And you said it better then I did. And no, I don't know differently, and certainly don't know better. In fact I have an advantage. Due to my health I have a lot of time. So it is so easy for me to see a player like RunningScared or SirLurch (my spelling is probably wrong) and understand no matter what their rating is, I know how good they really ...[text shortened]... does not usually work.
Your post was a solid post. Speaking in terms of just chess. Well done.
I don't accept unfair challenges now, ie, anything other than based on TER & 1 year ....
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@Maxtheminnow the days of the whinos, now you must all be sober hence why results have improved!
18 Apr 21
@maxtheminnow saidI really don't believe the TER tells the whole story.
Well, my experience is that it takes me 5 minutes to set up a challenge.
I look at the TER and 1 year rating and make the challenge.
I still make a few mistakes even with TER (eg, I set up a challenge with a 1400 player, only to realise later the opponent had a 5 year high of 2200!!!)
I do completely ignore current and 90-day because they are meaningless. What t ...[text shortened]... n 'gut feel' or 'I know all the players'.
So, 5 minutes is all it takes me ... and that is a fact
-VR
18 Apr 21
@maxtheminnow saidit could take only 5 minutes
Well, my experience is that it takes me 5 minutes to set up a challenge.
I look at the TER and 1 year rating and make the challenge.
I still make a few mistakes even with TER (eg, I set up a challenge with a 1400 player, only to realise later the opponent had a 5 year high of 2200!!!)
I do completely ignore current and 90-day because they are meaningless. What t ...[text shortened]... n 'gut feel' or 'I know all the players'.
So, 5 minutes is all it takes me ... and that is a fact
but you issue a lot of challenges and some get bounced
and that is time consuming
often there are several bounces of a single challenge
that has been my experience
18 Apr 21
@very-rusty saidno one said it did
I really don't believe the TER tells the whole story.
-VR
19 Apr 21
@very-rusty saidI don't think there is ever a "whole story" to be gleaned.
I really don't believe the TER tells the whole story.
-VR
TER is just another calculation - highest rating + current rating/2 both of which can be affected by circumstances we are unaware of.Current rating particularly is very unreliable I feel.As for highest rating,I once had a rating of 1728 around xmas many years ago.I think all my opponents must've been drunk at the time.My overall performance shows I am nowhere near that level.
Having said all that, TER is probably the best guide we have other than knowing other players, and your own players' abilities through experience.
@venda saidI believe the only way you can best know other players and your own players true ratings are having played them many times over the years. The really good clan leaders are best at figuring out who to match up, not that you can always get them. As I said everyone is always looking for that little edge and I am sure challenges are are accepted which are one sided, but it gets frustrating after awhile a lot of patience is needed for sure. Being a Clan Leader, or Captain or Co-captain is rewarding but a lot of work and can be a pain in the butt a lot of the time. At the end of the day I think having the experience and knowing how the both opponents play will give that Leader or Captain an advantage. I dislike very much when points are just handed to a Clan. What have they really won?
I don't think there is ever a "whole story" to be gleaned.
TER is just another calculation - highest rating + current rating/2 both of which can be affected by circumstances we are unaware of.Current rating particularly is very unreliable I feel.As for highest rating,I once had a rating of 1728 around xmas many years ago.I think all my opponents must've been drunk at the time. ...[text shortened]... guide we have other than knowing other players, and your own players' abilities through experience.
-VR
19 Apr 21
@very-rusty said😴
I believe the only way you can best know other players and your own players true ratings are having played them many times over the years. The really good clan leaders are best at figuring out who to match up, not that you can always get them. As I said everyone is always looking for that little edge and I am sure challenges are are accepted which are one sided, but it get ...[text shortened]... antage. I dislike very much when points are just handed to a Clan. What have they really won?
-VR
19 Apr 21
@lemondrop saidWell lemon if you can't do anything as a clan leader yourself, I guess all you have left is to talk about other clans. 😛 😉
well folks it looks like the metalheads are showing a pulse
shorty has been busy upping the challenges
pump away big guy!
-VR
@very-rusty saidthat's why we have the clans forum
Well lemon if you can't do anything as a clan leader yourself, I guess all you have left is to talk about other clans. 😛 😉
-VR
😴