25 Feb 08
Originally posted by darvlayEverything, it's at the heart of the matter. Aesthetic judgements pose a real dilemma because humans think and work in trends and groups and social agreements, we succeed and survive through them. But for the most part aesthetic judgements are transient, relative and subjective; one man's milk is another man's mustard. Desire is at the centre of driving forces upon which culture is built, and those desires, whilst most often common to all of us, may become realised in massively different ways, the aesthetic natures of which are pleasing to some and displeasing to others. Common desires: uncommon realisations.
What the hell does this have to do with culture?
25 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanI can understand your reasoning, but you might want to look at the forum description: "Discussion forum for the arts."
Everything, it's at the heart of the matter. Aesthetic judgements pose a real dilemma because humans think and work in trends and groups and social agreements, we succeed and survive through them. But for the most part aesthetic judgements are transient, relative and subjective; one man's milk is another man's mustard. Desire is at the centre of driving ...[text shortened]... which are pleasing to some and displeasing to others. Common desires: uncommon realisations.
It seems that the intent was to limit it to the first definition:
cul·ture [ kúlchər ]
noun (plural cul·tures)
Definition:
1. arts collectively: art, music, literature, and related intellectual activities, considered collectively
Culture is necessary for a healthy society.
popular culture
2. knowledge and sophistication: enlightenment and sophistication acquired through education and exposure to the arts
They are people of culture.
3. shared beliefs and values of group: the beliefs, customs, practices, and social behavior of a particular nation or people
Southeast Asian culture
4. people with shared beliefs and practices: a group of people whose shared beliefs and practices identify the particular place, class, or time to which they belong
5. shared attitudes: a particular set of attitudes that characterizes a group of people
The company tries hard to avoid a blame culture.
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI would have thought that the description is merely a first guide. A discussion of the arts should definitely include a discussion of desires, aesthetics and the philosophical problems which lay at the heart of man's creative urges.
I can understand your reasoning, but you might want to look at the forum description: "Discussion forum for the arts."
It seems that the intent was to limit it to the first definition:
[b]cul·ture [ kúlchər ]
noun (plural cul·tures)
Definition:
1. arts collectively: art, music, literature, and related intellectual activities, con ...[text shortened]... s that characterizes a group of people
The company tries hard to avoid a blame culture.
[/b]
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanI'd think you'd have to admit that it's more than a bit of a stretch to "Desire as the Cause of Human Suffering."
I would have thought that the description is merely a first guide. A discussion of the arts should definitely include a discussion of desires, aesthetics and the philosophical problems which lay at the heart of man's creative urges.
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo, I honestly don't. Whatever the description of the forum, I think most of the people who will take part here will be looking for a place to discuss aesthetic matters, philosophical matters, artistic matters, matters of tradition and of history; all the things that make up cultural pursuits. The debates forum is useless for this as it's run by militants, fascists and bigots, and given time I think this forum will allow real and interesting exchange of views on a range of subjects exceeding the limited description above.
I'd think you'd have to admit that it's more than a bit of a stretch to "Desire as the Cause of Human Suffering."
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYeah, this clearly belongs in a philosophy forum, or, in the absence of one, in the "spirituality" forum.
I can understand your reasoning, but you might want to look at the forum description: "Discussion forum for the arts."
It seems that the intent was to limit it to the first definition:
[b]cul·ture [ kúlchər ]
noun (plural cul·tures)
Definition:
1. arts collectively: art, music, literature, and related intellectual activities, con ...[text shortened]... s that characterizes a group of people
The company tries hard to avoid a blame culture.
[/b]
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanGiven time I think that the militants, fascists and bigots will take over this forum too. 😞
No, I honestly don't. Whatever the description of the forum, I think most of the people who will take part here will be looking for a place to discuss aesthetic matters, philosophical matters, artistic matters, matters of tradition and of history; all the things that make up cultural pursuits. The debates forum is useless for this as it's run by militants ...[text shortened]... interesting exchange of views on a range of subjects exceeding the limited description above.
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanSounds like you'd like to have a "Philosophy Forum". I'd think that that'd be a good thing.
No, I honestly don't. Whatever the description of the forum, I think most of the people who will take part here will be looking for a place to discuss aesthetic matters, philosophical matters, artistic matters, matters of tradition and of history; all the things that make up cultural pursuits. The debates forum is useless for this as it's run by militants ...[text shortened]... interesting exchange of views on a range of subjects exceeding the limited description above.
Now I can understand how the forum title may have gotten you to where you are, but clearly from the forum description, this is not it. Or to put it another way, the description should be given much more weight, since it's there to serve as a clarifying definition.
25 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneKnowing Russ, I very much doubt that the description was put there for any other means than to be a very general signpost.
Sounds like you'd like to have a "Philosophy Forum". I'd think that that'd be a good thing.
Now I can understand how the forum title may have gotten you to where you are, but clearly from the forum description, this is not it. Or to put it another way, the description should be given much more weight, since it's there to serve as a clarifying definition.
Lets face it, the forums aren't set up to fulfil needs, they're set up to segregate topics. Debates segregates the hatemongers, Spirituality segregates the magic-men, General segregates the morons and spammers, Clans segregates the rivals, ridiculing and retribution etc. Cultural segregates, for the moment, all those wishing to talk about things without being segregated into the other forums as they stand, topics are meaningless.
25 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by tomtom232I also believe this to be true. True of eastern as well as western cultures. You should look into Buddhism if you haven't. This is related to its fundamental teachings.
Is this true? At least in western culture? I have thought about this quite a bit
and want to know your thoughts. It seems to me that the more we desire the more we suffer...so I believe this is true...(especially in relationships 🙁 )
Here are some additional things to think about:
1) Are most of our desires an illusion? For example, a child develops an attachment to a blanket. For this child the blanket represents comfort and security. However the assignment of these attributes are borne of illusion. When the child comes to this realization, the blanket will once again become simply a blanket. Most people carry similar illusions well into adulthood if not the rest of their lives.
2) Are any desires not borne of illusion?
25 Feb 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne1) The desire is not borne from illusion, it is borne from the very real sense of comfort that is paralleled in a mother's arms or the smell of a dad's jumper etc.
I also believe this to be true.
Here are some additional things to think about:
1) Are most of our desires an illusion? For example, a child develops an attachment to a blanket. For this child the blanket represents comfort and security. However the assignment of these attributes are borne of illusion. When the child comes to this realization, the b ...[text shortened]... ell into adulthood if not the rest of their lives.
2) Are any desires not borne of illusion?
2) I could list them all day, but here's just a few: The desire for food, the desire for quiet, the desire for companionship, the desire for understanding, the desire for safety, the desire for sex, the desire for information, the desire for fun, the desire for shelter, for clothing, for love, for recognition. None of these are illusions, I could go on.