09 Mar 08
It'd be fine to read Borges in English rather than Spanish - and I heartily recommend you do: he might be a bit clever and literary for some, but he's actually very funny, as well as thought-provoking.
Anyway, I say it should be fine to read him in English as he said himself that he first read Don Quixote (which was to be of profound influence upon his writing, and which tackled the very subject of this thread - art challenging the nature of what is real and making the world uncanny - in 1605) in English translation...
And if you've not read Don Quixote, you've missed out. It's as fresh as it was 400 years ago.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by adam warlockWhat is real?
What is real?
In the point of view of knowledge, knowledge is pretty much agreement.
What do you mean by 'real'? How would you be able to tell if something is 'real' or not? We can certainly doubt the evidence of our senses, but can we gain knowledge of the world in any other way?
In the point of view of knowledge, knowledge is pretty much agreement.
Knowledge certainly isn't agreement. Everyone in the world can agree the world is flat, but that doesn't make it the case that they know the world is flat, simply because it isn't true that the world is flat. The traditional analysis of knowledge, goin back to Plato, is that knowledge is justified true belief. However, a few decades ago Edmund Gettier publishes an alleged counterexample that has cast serious doubts that this is right.
As for films, i suppose The Matrix would be too obvious an example? There are supposed to be links with the philosophy of Baudrillard.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by Iron MonkeyKnowledge certainly isn't agreement. Everyone in the world can agree the world is flat, but that doesn't make it the case that they know the world is flat, simply because it isn't true that the world is flat. The traditional analysis of knowledge, goin back to Plato, is that knowledge is justified true belief. However, a few decades ago Edmund Gettier publishes an alleged counterexample that has cast serious doubts that this is right.
What is real?
What do you mean by 'real'? How would you be able to tell if something is 'real' or not? We can certainly doubt the evidence of our senses, but can we gain knowledge of the world in any other way?
In the point of view of knowledge, knowledge is pretty much agreement.
Knowledge certainly isn't agreement. Everyone in t ...[text shortened]... oo obvious an example? There are supposed to be links with the philosophy of Baudrillard.
You say that because you know now that the world is flat, but if you didn't that would be knowledge. Now the question if that knowledge corresponds to truth or not is a different question. A strong and contemporary example: Quantum Mechanics. It is knowledge. Does it correspond to reality? It seems so right now but what it look like in a thousand years time? There was a time when newtonian physics looked like real and nowadays we know it isn't. I don't what to discuss this things in a metaphysical sense, I was more interested in the operational sense of the word real. For instance: we know electrons are real because we can do experiments that evidence their behaviour and we agree on the how to interpret the facts. That's all I meant. But if you are interested in discussing this things in a deeper philosophical menaing than count me out. By the way what counter example are you talking about? I never heard of that guy before.
What do you mean by 'real'? How would you be able to tell if something is 'real' or not? We can certainly doubt the evidence of our senses, but can we gain knowledge of the world in any other way?
For me true knowledge can only be accomplished through the methods we usually link to the so called hard sciences. Philosophical shenanigasn and false questions don't really interest me that much. Normally I laugh when I hear philosophers discussing quantum mechanics and their foundantions and interpretations when they don't even understand the concept of a square root. For me that is hilarious. But ultimately knowledge is all about confrontation. You say something about the phenomenom A and for you to know if what you say about A in the conditions you are considering really happens you have to put A under those conditions and see what happens. Either A acts like you thought or it doesn't but either way you have gained knowledge about A. Of course we can discuss the basis of interpretation of the said phenomenom but the point still stands.
Now from what I know from deep philosophy it is all just thought and no confrontation and for me that isn't knowledge, that is just a lof of hot air.
Now on the point of telling if something is real or not once again I'd have to go with agreement in first place and accordance to reality later on. But this last part is the hard one to judge. Firs of all we would have to go if reality really exists and is independent of the observer, I believe this is so but this is only my believe, and then we would have to discuss on how to reach reality when everything we experience comes after interpretation of physical processes.
Matrix is a good example indeed and I like the trilogy a lot. My favourite one is the second one even though from all the people I know I'm the only one that seems to thimk like that.
10 Mar 08
Interesting Seitse. Of course, Borges benefited from a multi-lingual upbringing - he read Dickens and Shakespeare in English as a boy. I still think, though, that since he stated he first read the Quixote in English - and didn't get round to reading in Spanish for a fair while afterwards, as I recall - it should be OK to read Borges in English.
And anyway, better in English than not at all!
Of course, since I can't read Spanish, all this might be paltry self-justification... and I can quite believe I'm missing plenty...
11 Mar 08
Originally posted by adam warlockHave you ever seen the film "Pi"? It's brilliant and the theme seems right up your alley.
One thing that I forget to say in the first post is that I'm a sucker for nonlinear narratives too. That only seems to add fuel to the fire of what's real or not. So any nonlinear stuff that you guys and girls want to suggest would be greatly appreciated.