22 Feb 09
Originally posted by ale1552>Yes, I believe Schubert did die of syphilis (so maybe he wasn't as shy as we think!), but I have never heard that this was what caused Beethoven's deafness. Has that actually been established?
Thanks for the bit of trivia....which I love! Schubert would compose a song and take it to trade for a loaf of bread. He was never a success during his short lifetime. History had recorded that he died of typhus, but I read not long ago that it was actually syphilis...the same thing that caused Beethoven's deafness....only it was the father's ailment, not h ...[text shortened]... ightened. Again....it may just be hearsay in Schubert's case. I mean, how would anyone know?
>We now know that Beethoven's death was as the result of lead poisoning, accidental of course, and there are several reasons for that: the way they corked wine bottles in those days being one (he was a heavy drinker) and other things.
>I have always thought that we do not know the reason for his deafness. Do you know for certain that it was syphilis? What is your source?
>Whenever I think of Schubert, I always think of the last song in his song cycle, Die Wintereisse. Der Leiermann. seems to be a summation of his whole life, and I'm convinced he was aware of it when he wrote it.
23 Feb 09
Originally posted by AttilaTheHornI thought it was common knowledge that Beethoven's deafness was a birth defect caused by syphilis from the father. But, it could be merely an assumption. I sometimes prefer to be left ignorant of these details. But, I have been reading famous composers biographies since I was six years old! And sometimes you cannot avoid these stories that enter the picture. I walked out of the movie "Amadeus" early on...as I found it so repulsive.
>Yes, I believe Schubert did die of syphilis (so maybe he wasn't as shy as we think!), but I have never heard that this was what caused Beethoven's deafness. Has that actually been established?
>We now know that Beethoven's death was as the result of lead poisoning, accidental of course, and there are several reasons for that: the way they corked wine ...[text shortened]... to be a summation of his whole life, and I'm convinced he was aware of it when he wrote it.
23 Feb 09
Originally posted by ale1552I had never heard about this either and tried to find out a bit more on the internet. This theory wasn't mentioned on any of the pages I visited, but I found a somewhat related WikiAnswer to the question whether his mother had syphilis: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Beethoven%27s_mother_have_syphilis
I thought it was common knowledge that Beethoven's deafness was a birth defect caused by syphilis from the father. But, it could be merely an assumption.
As for the cause of his deafness, there seem to be lots of different theories from lead poisoning to syphilis, but nothing certain.
As for Schubert, according to Neumayr he most likely did die of a typhoid fever: http://www.franzschubert.org.uk/bib/art00007.html
However, he probably also had syphilis, it just wasn't the cause of his premature death.
27 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by AttilaTheHornI don't think it is tragically sad that Franze Schubert didn't talk to Beethoven. The two men had very different temperments.
Schubert was incredibly shy, painfully so. Both he and Beethoven lived in Vienna at the same time. Beethoven was a giant in music, famous throughout the world, and he used to go regularly to this coffee house where he had a table reserved for him, It must have been great for the business because people would come from all over to meet Beethoven, who, b ...[text shortened]... too shy to go over and introduce himself. So the two never actually met.
It's tragically sad.
What Schubert benefitted from Beethoven I think he got without having to meet him. And Beethoven could be very rude.
In my opinion Franze Schubert for his short life made out just super without talking personally to Ludwig. And I think that is understatment.
More of a tragedy is the syphallis which took him away so early. And I think he probably could have done without his "friend" Schobar.
27 Feb 09
>Yes, it's true that Beethoven could be very rude. He was incredibly demanding, not only of others but also himself, but I didn't mean it was sad that he and Schubert never met. I think it's sad that Schubert's shyness prevented him from introducing himself when the opportunity was there.
>I do think Schubert would have made out a lot better in music, as far as making a living is concerned, if he had somehow overcome that. He could never sell himself to the public and relied on close friends for support.
>I think there were only 2 public performances of his works in his lifetime, one being only 8 months before his death. All others were private affairs among his friends. Therefore, few people even knew Schubert existed. That is sad because no one could spin out beautiful melodies like Schubert.
02 Mar 09
Originally posted by quorthonDrummer - Keith Moon
The best deadmen band would be,
John Bonham (Led Zeppelin,drums)
Frank Zappa and Jimi Hendrix (guitars)
Cliff Burton(Metallica,bass)
Freddie Mercury (Queen,vocals) or should the raw sound of Bon Scott (AC/DC) fit better in this line?
Guitarists, Lennon, Harrison and Buddy Holly.
Lead singer. Janis Joplin
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by sonhouseForgive the PUN, but all the dead guys are DECOMPOSING! Seriously, having been born on Beethoven's birthday and being a Peanuts "Schroeder" fan, I have to say how much I enjoy Beethoven's beautiful change-ups in dynamics, sonority, exquisite adagio movements of his piano concertos, and his amazing last three piano sonatas (longest trills, rhythm and meter challenges, his leap into uncharted territory in many ways.) Not to mention his survival of abuse and hardships which did not stifle his creativity. How lucky I was to see/hear Mitsuko Uchida play his last 3 piano sonatas at Caramoor two summers ago. She honored Beethoven with her magical playing! Try to get to one of her infrequent US concerts.
They said DEAD not LIVING dead🙂
By the way everyone, check out "Sonhouse" playing guitar on his 'youtube' site! Musical talent is alive and well.
Love this cultural forum, too. Katia
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by katia08>If you want to experience Beethoven moving into uncharted territory, check out his so-called late quartets.
Forgive the PUN, but all the dead guys are DECOMPOSING! Seriously, having been born on Beethoven's birthday and being a Peanuts "Schroeder" fan, I have to say how much I enjoy Beethoven's beautiful change-ups in dynamics, sonority, exquisite adagio movements of his piano concertos, and his amazing last three piano sonatas (longest trills, rhythm and meter c ...[text shortened]... tube' site! Musical talent is alive and well.
Love this cultural forum, too. Katia
>The world is still heavily influenced, in all musical styles, by all that he wrote in his lifetime.