23 Apr 07
Originally posted by MerkAre you sure about this statement?
This is where you're wrong. The U.N. does not govern the U.S. The U.S. Congress and Executive signed a bill into law. Hence, the U.S. acted legally.
We don't classify DU as a chemical weapon.
We haven't outlawed cluster bombs, etc.
Every nation makes their own decision on when or when not to use force.
Are you positive about your sentiments on this issue?
What you're saying is that EVERY nation or fraction or group can decide for themselves who they're going to go to war with. And why.
If DU's okay and cluster bombs are okay (because the US didn't sign any treaties against them), then any other weapon is fine as well, isn't it? Just don't sign up to a treaty...HEY PRESTO... a passenger jet, a disease and bombs in kiddy toys suddenly become alright.
It's a simple world when one isn't a hypocrite! 🙂
23 Apr 07
2 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirUmmmm... I think you're missing it.
Are you sure about this statement?
Are you positive about your sentiments on this issue?
What you're saying is that EVERY nation or fraction or group can decide for themselves who they're going to go to war with. And why.
If DU's okay and cluster bombs are okay (because the US didn't sign any treaties against them), then any other weapon is fine as ddy toys suddenly become alright.
It's a simple world when one isn't a hypocrite! 🙂
For those terrorist that blow themselves up, hijack planes or make bombs out of kiddie toys, its illegal in the U.S. If a country wants to make it legal in theirs, that's their business. If the zealots are abiding by some religious law, and their group interprets it as a legal action, then it's legal to them, for them to do so. Their laws are not our laws and vice versa. When they're here, we expect them to abide by our laws, when they're not, they get to abide by a different set of laws.
We can sign all the treaties in the world. None of them supercede the constitution. It's plane (pardon - had to.) as day in our constitution. Congress has the authority to declare war. It's like a decision being overturned by a higher court.
Hence, the U.S. was acting legally by its own authority.
23 Apr 07
Originally posted by MerkNow.
As long as it's not in a country that outlaws it.
What if the US invades a country, say a country that doesn't want them there. Is that allowed?
You obviously see where this is going. You're trying to adopt one set of rules for the US and other rules for everyone else. That never works.
23 Apr 07
Originally posted by shavixmirI saw where it was going.
Now.
What if the US invades a country, say a country that doesn't want them there. Is that allowed?
You obviously see where this is going. You're trying to adopt one set of rules for the US and other rules for everyone else. That never works.
During wartime, the actions of U.S. military personnel are bound ultimately by U.S. law. My statement about the military action being legal for the countries involved is still correct. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it.
I suppose in technical terms, during any hot war throughout history, one country was breaking the laws of another. That doesn't mean it was against German law for Germany to invade France. Meaning: From the German prospective, it was legal.
23 Apr 07
Originally posted by MerkSo you are basically saying that anybody can do whatever they want...because it's alright from their perspective?
I saw where it was going.
During wartime, the actions of U.S. military personnel are bound ultimately by U.S. law. My statement about the military action being legal for the countries involved is still correct. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it.
I suppose in technical terms, during any hot war throughout history, one country was breaking the laws of a ...[text shortened]... st German law for Germany to invade France. Meaning: From the German prospective, it was legal.
23 Apr 07
Originally posted by Merk...And therefor you justify all actions.
Nope. Just said it was a legal U.S. action.
Do you know why countries/people sign treaties? It's not because you don't want to do something, it's because you don't want THEM to do it to YOU. And the price you pay is that you're bound to the same.
By saying, for instance, that the Iraq war was legal because it fit into US legislation, is denying everything you and we have agreed on in the UN.
By suggesting that it is okay because the US has legalised it, denies all and every international context.
And you know the answer you will receive?
"On your head be it."
23 Apr 07
Originally posted by shavixmir"...And therefor you justify all actions."
...And therefor you justify all actions.
Do you know why countries/people sign treaties? It's not because you don't want to do something, it's because you don't want THEM to do it to YOU. And the price you pay is that you're bound to the same.
By saying, for instance, that the Iraq war was legal because it fit into US legislation, is denying everyth ...[text shortened]... ernational context.
And you know the answer you will receive?
"On your head be it."
Nope.
"Do you know why countries/people sign treaties? It's not because you don't want to do something, it's because you don't want THEM to do it to YOU. And the price you pay is that you're bound to the same."
I say to you again, treaties to not supercede the U.S. constitution.
"By suggesting that it is okay because the US has legalised it, denies all and every international context."
I never said that. I said it's legal. The reasons why it's okay are seperate from just being legal.
You know my take on globalony, but I'm gonna throw out the short version again. No nation can mandate completely when and why another can or cannot not take defensive actions. The only thing they can do is make the stick of taking action bigger than the carrot of not. Whichever path has the greater incentive is the path a nation will take.
24 Apr 07
Originally posted by shavixmirTreaties only mean something if both sides abide by them. An agreement was met in order to prevent us from totally invading in 91. A dozen times and as many resolutions passed and he kept pushing. He also steadily increased attacks on planes enforcing the no fly zone (which was put in place to prevent chemical attacks on the Kurds etc). He was warned over and over and screwed with the wrong man (Bush), including a failed attempt on his fathers life. Now he's dead and his country is screwed up for now. Oh well, they had the chance to do the job and take him out. It will take time but things there will get back to normal. So in hind site the US flipped the bird at the UN and did the job they should have done.
...And therefor you justify all actions.
Do you know why countries/people sign treaties? It's not because you don't want to do something, it's because you don't want THEM to do it to YOU. And the price you pay is that you're bound to the same.
By saying, for instance, that the Iraq war was legal because it fit into US legislation, is denying everyth ...[text shortened]... ernational context.
And you know the answer you will receive?
"On your head be it."
Was it legal? I guess it was if the UN hasn't arrested us or invaded us yet 🙂
By the way, is there any other country that is willing to house and almost fully fund the joke called the UN. We're sick of it.
24 Apr 07
Originally posted by GascraftJust don't seem fair! They should line up and let us shoot them like decent folk. Imagine lining up for freebees! What a novel concept. Ever spent any time watching the socialist drones in queue for their welfare...errrrr.... entitlements?
3.9 million Iraqi people have left their homes in Iraq. 50,000 leave the country each month, while many more are internally displaced.
Wow.. that's a lot of homeless people for an illegial war fought through lies.
25 Apr 07
Originally posted by hamltnblueQuite the brain dead one, aren't you?
Treaties only mean something if both sides abide by them. An agreement was met in order to prevent us from totally invading in 91. A dozen times and as many resolutions passed and he kept pushing. He also steadily increased attacks on planes enforcing the no fly zone (which was put in place to prevent chemical attacks on the Kurds etc). He was warned o ...[text shortened]... try that is willing to house and almost fully fund the joke called the UN. We're sick of it.