Another American Coward

Originally posted by no1marauder
Self-righteous tripe; if he beats their records he beats their records. I could care less what he did with his own body; Babe Ruth consumed tons of illegal substances (booze during prohibition) and no one cared. Or should the Bambino's records be taken away also?

Yeah, we should strip Ruth of his records, because we all know that a guy hits better when he's boozing. 🙄

Seriously, this is as absurd as saying that engine use in a chess game is legal because you don't care what someone does with their own chess engine.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Yeah, we should strip Ruth of his records, because we all know that a guy hits better when he's boozing. 🙄

Seriously, this is as absurd as saying that engine use in a chess game is legal because you don't care what someone does with their own chess engine.

That's ridiculous; chess engines directly affect the game it would be akin to having a robot bat for you. Steroids have effects on your body, but so does weightlifting, better diet and a myriad of other factors. Baseball records really can't be meaningfully compared from different eras anyway; in the "dead ball" era and in the 60's when the mound was raised pitching dominated; in the late 20's and early 30's the ball was super jacked up and all kinds of hitting records were set. To me the integrity of baseball records is not much of a big deal (and I say that as a diehard baseball fan) but the incessant attempts to rip the players is. They are, after all, what people pay to see.

Originally posted by no1marauder
That's ridiculous; chess engines directly affect the game it would be akin to having a robot bat for you. Steroids have effects on your body, but so does weightlifting, better diet and a myriad of other factors. Baseball records really can't be meaningfully compared from different eras anyway; in the "dead ball" era and in the 60's when the mo ...[text shortened]... ) but the incessant attempts to rip the players is. They are, after all, what people pay to see.

I'd like to see a robot that is good enough to hit a major league pitcher.

Steroid use should be banned in baseball for the exact same reason that the 'super jacked up' ball was abandoned: Both of them give too much advantage to the hitter. Even if you care nothing for records, it seems cheap to lose a pennant or a series because more guys 'roided up on one team than the other. I prefer to see a game decided by the skill and talent of the players; I have no interest in seeing a game that is decided by who pops the most and/or the best pills and substances. I don't begrudge someone who diets and exercises and lifts weights, because they are earning their fitness and strength, rather than getting it on a silver platter from some drug.

As public figures, the players had better be able to handle some criticism. If people are paying to see baseball, that gives them a vested interest in how the game is played. And I don't know of many professions, whether rich or poor, that are immune from criticism.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I'd like to see a robot that is good enough to hit a major league pitcher.

Steroid use should be banned in baseball for the exact same reason that the 'super jacked up' ball was abandoned: Both of them give too much advantage to the hitter. Even if you care nothing for records, it seems cheap to lose a pennant or a series because more guys 'roi ...[text shortened]... ed. And I don't know of many professions, whether rich or poor, that are immune from criticism.

Of course, 20 years ago chess engines wouldn't have been able to beat most decent players on this site either; I was only suggesting that if a robot was built that was better than the average major league player that would be akin to using Fritz8 or Shredder9 on this site.

I see little difference between using one technique to build strength or another. Clearly not everybody who takes steroids all of a sudden can hit like Barry Bonds; the game is still decided by the skill of the players.

I think the type of delving into athlete's personal lives that goes on is inappropriate; do we really need to know every time a third string shortstop has a fight with his wife and the cops get called? That's really what I'm referring to. And if you watch the games you know that the fans who are there don't care whether Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire took steroids or not - all they care about is seeing them hit the ball. That's what the game should focus on, not the off-field proclivities of the players.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Of course, 20 years ago chess engines wouldn't have been able to beat most decent players on this site either; I was only suggesting that if a robot was built that was better than the average major league player that would be akin to using Fritz8 or Shredder9 on this site.

I see little difference between using one technique to build s ...[text shortened]... the ball. That's what the game should focus on, not the off-field proclivities of the players.

Steroids build strength much more quickly and effectively than weightlifting. Furthermore, they can give athletes muscle bulk that they could never get with weightlifting.

Barry Bonds has always been a good hitter, and he used to be a great all-around player. An interesting article on Bonds' transformation is http://www.cnnsi.com/2004/writers/jacob_luft/12/07/bonds.elvis/

I'm not interested in delving into the player's personal lives, but when a small, speedy guy suddenly transforms into a hulking behemoth, it's hard not to think he's on 'roids. The key difference between steroid use and other 'proclivities' is that steroids are a federally banned substance used by the players solely to enhance their performance. They bring it onto the field, so it's fair game for discussion.