Are you an anti-Semite? A primer

@sh76 said
Jeez. You too?

Yes, I know that Arabs are also technically Semitic, which is why I generally use the term "Jew hater" but the term is used ubiquitously and synonymously with anti-Jew and "anti-Jew" sounds clunky, especially in this context.

There are several senses, which it makes sense to distinguish or disambiguate.

1. dislike or hatred of the Jews as an ethnic group (excluding Arabs, who, technically are also, historically and linguistically, a Semitic people).

2. dislike of or opposition to the Judaic religion (regardless which ethnic communities may consider themselves members of the religion).

3. dislike of or opposition to the policies of the Israeli government or sitting administration (esp. territorial expansionism).

4. historically and linguistically, the Jews and the Arabs (including the Palestinians) are Semitic peoples, so in this sense, if Jews hate Arabs (including Palestinians), these Jews are antisemitic.

It is sometimes difficult to disambiguate these different senses of "antisemitism" because some Israelis and Jews themselves do not distinguish them. For example, some Jews/Israelis themselves define Israel as a Jewish state, whereas others define Judaism as an ethnic religion ("God's chosen people" ) whereby one can convert to the Judaic religion but one cannot convert to being a Jew (one can only be born a Jew).

Now, for those who collapse these different senses of "antisemitism", anyone who opposes the political ("Zionist" ) policies of the Israeli state will be classified as a racist, almost by definition, because, as they see it, anyone who opposes Israel must be a hater of the Jews as an ethnic group.

This is unfortunate and tends to polarise debates about legitimate grievances. As anyone with his wits about him (or where he can get them on 24 hours notice) will concede, it is possible to oppose the policies of, for example, Xi Jinping's government, without necessarily being racist against the Chinese as a people. One can oppose the policies of PM Trudeau without being prejudiced against Canadians generally.

@moonbus said
There are several senses, which it makes sense to distinguish or disambiguate.

1. dislike or hatred of the Jews as an ethnic group (excluding Arabs, who, technically are also, historically and linguistically, a Semitic people).

2. dislike of or opposition to the Judaic religion (regardless which ethnic communities may consider themselves members of the religion).

3. ...[text shortened]... ple. One can oppose the policies of PM Trudeau without being prejudiced against Canadians generally.

Number 3 is not a valid definition of an anti semitic stance or expression by any stretch the imagination in my opinion.
The others are anti semitic given that there is no other rational for them. Many Israeli and non Israeli Jews would fall into the category of anti Semitic if No 3 denoted it and so would I.

@shavixmir said
A mere observation.
I’m sure you used your gasmask correctly.

Did the Kibbutzniks enjoy your wacky concepts of economy? Or did they just feed you vodka so they didn’t have to listen to you?

A voluntary commune. You don't like the 'voluntary' word, so pointless even talking to you about it.

Are you now against minimum wages? Volunteers got an allowance that barely covered soap and toothpaste. No vodka, you paid for your own beer which the allowance definitely didn't come close to covering.

BTW kibbutz members got gas masks volunteers got nothing, were told nothing, knew nothing (pre-internet). There were drills and sirens but the volunteers weren't informed, the sonic boom of jets going super sonic, had to figure that one out ourselves.

@kevcvs57 said
Number 3 is not a valid definition of an anti semitic stance or expression by any stretch the imagination in my opinion.
The others are anti semitic given that there is no other rational for them. Many Israeli and non Israeli Jews would fall into the category of anti Semitic if No 3 denoted it and so would I.

Well, that's just the problem, because some people define the state of Israel as a (politically) Jewish state and Judaism as the (ethnic) Jewish religion--it catches too many dolphins in the tunafish net, as it were.

Some would prefer to call opposition to the Israeli state or its policies "anti-zionism", to disambiguate.

@moonbus said
Well, that's just the problem, because some people define the state of Israel as a (politically) Jewish state and Judaism as the (ethnic) Jewish religion--it catches too many dolphins in the tunafish net, as it were.

Some would prefer to call opposition to the Israeli state or its policies "anti-zionism", to disambiguate.

I would call it anti imperialist or anti expansionist in terms of the West Bank settlements and otter land it’s obtained through force of arms since it’s original borders were ratified by the UN
The obsession with Jewish identity is a red herring used by Israel and its allies, even Its antagonistic Arab neighbours use it to harness Islamic identity to their cause.
But what Israel is doing in Gaza disgusts me and would disgust me regardless of who was doing it. Perhaps we need to stop accepting that the argument against, or for, Israel’s response to what Hamas did on oct 7th should be framed in terms of Islam and Judaism and just recognise a gross overreaction by a relatively powerful state to an albeit horrific attack by a relatively powerless statelet in which almost all the victims are innocent civilians.
We can support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself without condoning a war crime just as we can support Palestine’s right to exist without condoning a war crime

@shavixmir said
You are just plain moronic.

Have you ever been to a refugee campnin your life? Ever lived through a bombing or in a warzone?

You’re an armchair general who thinks in black & white scenarios and has no quims about murdering thousands of children. And no idea of what the long term effects of that are going to be.

Dude, I'm a lot of things.

Moronic ain't one of them.

@sh76 said
Dude, I'm a lot of things.

Moronic ain't one of them.

several of your views you've expressed here and the way you expressed them beg to differ


the most recent one "if you think israel is commiting genocide you're anti semitic". Just hilariously moronic.

@zahlanzi said
several of your views you've expressed here and the way you expressed them beg to differ


the most recent one "if you think israel is commiting genocide you're anti semitic". Just hilariously moronic.

Pretty much sums it up.

@kevcvs57 said
I would call it anti imperialist or anti expansionist in terms of the West Bank settlements and otter land it’s obtained through force of arms since it’s original borders were ratified by the UN
The obsession with Jewish identity is a red herring used by Israel and its allies, even Its antagonistic Arab neighbours use it to harness Islamic identity to their cause.
But ...[text shortened]... ondoning a war crime just as we can support Palestine’s right to exist without condoning a war crime

Yes, I’d go along with that assessment. Living at peace with their neighbors has not been a strong suit of societies in the Fertile Crescent since the last ice age ended. It doesn’t seem to me to be an issue specific to any particular religion.

@moonbus said
As anyone with his wits about him (or where he can get them on 24 hours notice) will concede, it is possible to oppose the policies of, for example, Xi Jinping's government, without necessarily being racist against the Chinese as a people. One can oppose the policies of PM Trudeau without being prejudiced against Canadians generally.

It doesn't work that way in the case of Israel.

Israel is "special."

Special enough, in fact, to get another $15 billion handout from the US.

@soothfast said
It doesn't work that way in the case of Israel.

Israel is "special."

Special enough, in fact, to get another $15 billion handout from the US.

The Dems should have told the MAGA fools to go pound sand on the aid to Israel unless the bill included aid to Ukraine.

Now we'll never see a bill with aid to Ukraine. Too many Putin lovers in the MAGA crowd.

@suzianne said
The Dems should have told the MAGA fools to go pound sand on the aid to Israel unless the bill included aid to Ukraine.

Now we'll never see a bill with aid to Ukraine. Too many Putin lovers in the MAGA crowd.

the dems don't want to appear anti-israel any more than republicans. It would have been a pointless bluff.

The democrats are almost as disgustingly pro-israel as the republicans are.

@suzianne said
The Dems should have told the MAGA fools to go pound sand on the aid to Israel unless the bill included aid to Ukraine.

Now we'll never see a bill with aid to Ukraine. Too many Putin lovers in the MAGA crowd.

Has it got through the rest of congress already I thought it would struggle in the senate and I heard Biden was threatening to use his veto

@suzianne said
The Dems should have told the MAGA fools to go pound sand on the aid to Israel unless the bill included aid to Ukraine.

Now we'll never see a bill with aid to Ukraine. Too many Putin lovers in the MAGA crowd.

One of the reasons McCarthy was ousted is because he would not stop Omnibus Bills.
We are sick and tired of bills being packed with poison pill amendments and rider legislation of the type you support. Most Americans are against sending more money to Ukraine..... and Israel too for that matter. Israel has universal healthcare and we are sending them money when we don't?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-subject_rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecking_amendment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_(legislation)

@metal-brain said
One of the reasons McCarthy was ousted is because he would not stop Omnibus Bills.
We are sick and tired of bills being packed with poison pill amendments and rider legislation of the type you support. Most Americans are against sending more money to Ukraine..... and Israel too for that matter. Israel has universal healthcare and we are sending them money when we don't? ...[text shortened]... ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecking_amendment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_(legislation)

You mean bipartisan bills that have not been cleared by the criminal Putin puppet trump who is not even a member of congress.