" assault Rape survivors say they are being stigmatised for not wearing masks"

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Okay, what if there is never a vaccine? Is it reasonable to ask someone to spend potentially the rest of their life avoiding public places because (for whatever valid reason) they are unable to wear a face mask?

For example, a number of the clients I work with suffer with PTSD, a few of whom can't wear masks due to it triggering truly horrible memories. Is it reasonable to ask such individuals to avoid public places, potentially forever?

I have often thought about this -- if it is the case that this disease will be with us eternally, society would need to be restructured, I think, because it would now be an issue about how we cannot have everyone's quality of life permanently impacted negatively...

It would make much more sense to have certain segments of the population voluntarily isolate themselves, and help them facilitate this.

Good statement.

@philokalia said
Noted.

But

(1) How is ChiCom necessarily a pejorative? Is Chinese a pejorative? Is Communist a pejorative?

It would be much more like shorting Neo-Conservative to Neocon, or a Trump Republican to Trumplican.

That was my intent.

(2) Is Taiwan China?

[quote]Philokalia apparently loathes and cannot tolerate any China
that would ...[text shortened]... game[/i], and I sort of appreciate that, D64, but I do not think that is what you actually intended.

Note that @Duchess64 has not responded to any of the content here, presumably due to an inability to counter the narrative that ChiCom is not a pejorative any more than 'Chinese' or 'Communist' is, and that she cannot account for the fact that I obviously do not support some primitive imperialist policy in the East.

@no1marauder said
There is no "logic" in stupidly insisting you have some personal "right" to spread a deadly disease.

There is nothing "modern day" about societies taking measures to reduce the chances of communicable diseases spreading and sickening and killing; they have done so since time immemorial.

It has nothing, zero, zilch, to do with my " right" to spread a virus and just a tad more to do with your own responsibility to your own self not to get it.
How can I spread this virus to anyone that stays home, wears a mask etc,etc.
You know, that thing that has passed with time, personal responsibility. They have stopped teaching it in schools now it seems and people "rights" are emphasized. Sad days indeed.

@jimmac said
It has nothing, zero, zilch, to do with my " right" to spread a virus and just a tad more to do with your own responsibility to your own self not to get it.
How can I spread this virus to anyone that stays home, wears a mask etc,etc.
You know, that thing that has passed with time, personal responsibility. They have stopped teaching it in schools now it seems and people "rights" are emphasized. Sad days indeed.

The mask doesn’t so much protect the wearer, as the people in their vicinity from any potential transmission.
That’s how we know that it’s mainly skin crawlingly selfish individuals who don’t wear them rather than freedom loving heroes.
I do support medical dispensations from mask wearing though.

@philokalia said
Note that @Duchess64 has not responded to any of the content here, presumably due to an inability to counter the narrative that ChiCom is not a pejorative any more than 'Chinese' or 'Communist' is, and that she cannot account for the fact that I obviously do not support some primitive imperialist policy in the East.

Shall we start calling Americans ‘AmCaps’ you know because they are American and Capitalists.
You can pretend that ChiCom is not a way of dehumanising the people of the Chinese mainland, but it is. Why would you need to tag them with their economic system?
What’s wrong with saying China or Chinese?

@jimmac said
This is the problem that I have, in this modern victim worshiping age, WE have to wear masks for OTHERS. in this age of "take no responsibility" why is it always someone ELSES responsibility.
If you don't want it YOU wear the damn mask.
BTW, I do wear a mask, it stops me getting a $200.00 fine and it stops crazies from attacking me.
Personal responsibility is dead.

" WE have to wear masks for OTHERS."
we have to wear masks for each other.

"in this age of "take no responsibility" why is it always someone ELSES responsibility"
huh? wtf does this mean.

"Personal responsibility is dead."
wtf does this mean? you just said you're wearing the mask to not get fined. what do you want, an honor system where the mask is optional? Would you also like no speed limits where everyone is advised to drive unde 50km/h but no repercussions 8f you go 150?

@kevcvs57 said

I do support medical dispensations from mask wearing though.

I would expect nothing less Kev and worry about those who don't.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I would expect nothing less Kev and worry about those who don't.

I think in certain countries mask wearing or not wearing has become far too politicised for a rational debate about compromises between public health and protection against the ostracism of the medically and psychologically vulnerable.

@kevcvs57 said
Shall we start calling Americans ‘AmCaps’ you know because they are American and Capitalists.
You can pretend that ChiCom is not a way of dehumanising the people of the Chinese mainland, but it is. Why would you need to tag them with their economic system?
What’s wrong with saying China or Chinese?

For reference, this was the context I originally used ChiCom:

(1) Taiwan is that, yes, but wouldn't it be important for you to kindly include it in the domain of China? The ChiComs regularly do this with documents and even forbid international bodies to mention it or treat it as if it is a government at all.

I am not referring to everyday Chinese as ChiComs, but rather clearly talking about the people who wield power in China as I am talking about active policies.

I fully respect the diversity of opinions among the Chinese, and find it detestable that they can be suppressed by the ChiCom government.

Now, having said that...

Let us say that we referred to self-identifying American Republicans as 'AmCaps,' it would not be derogatory as they are professed Capitalists, and Americans.

Let us say that we referred to the whole of American government as AmCaps, it would be sloppy to include people who do not identify as Capitalists. But I suppose it'd be forgivable...

Do you think "Chinese" or "Communist" is an insult to a member of the Chinese Communist Party, @kevcs57?

I did not say "China" or "Chinese" becaue I was actually referring to the policy makers who must be distinguished from regular Chinese for the benefit of the regular Chinese.

@kevcvs57 said
The mask doesn’t so much protect the wearer, as the people in their vicinity from any potential transmission.
That’s how we know that it’s mainly skin crawlingly selfish individuals who don’t wear them rather than freedom loving heroes.
I do support medical dispensations from mask wearing though.

"I do support medical dispensations from mask wearing though."
it doesn't work like that. Like you said, wearing masks is to protect others and limit spread. It doesn't really protect you directly. One individual with such "medical dispensation" is enough to infect an entire supermarket. It's like saying speed limits are good but some individuals should have a special privilege to drive 160km/h in city limits because they need to get places faster.

We are all supposed to wear masks to protect each other. These people should stay at home to protect others. We are all supposed to drive within speed limits and not while drunk. We make sacrifices for public safety.

@kevcvs57 said
I think in certain countries mask wearing or not wearing has become far too politicised for a rational debate about compromises between public health and protection against the ostracism of the medically and psychologically vulnerable.

It also didn't help that, in the UK, the chief medical advisor said the benefits of masks were minimal and spoke about the risk of self-contamination when wearing them.

I think, properly maintained, they have a place (for those able to wear them) but many people I see just shoving them into pockets and then putting them back on later. (Negating their effectiveness).

@zahlanzi said
" WE have to wear masks for OTHERS."
we have to wear masks for each other.

"in this age of "take no responsibility" why is it always someone ELSES responsibility"
huh? wtf does this mean.

"Personal responsibility is dead."
wtf does this mean? you just said you're wearing the mask to not get fined. what do you want, an honor system where the mask is optional? Would y ...[text shortened]... e no speed limits where everyone is advised to drive unde 50km/h but no repercussions 8f you go 150?

do you want, an honor system where the mask is optional? ---Yes

Would you also like no speed limits where everyone is advised to drive unde 50km/h but no repercussions 8f you go 150?-- -- No
A quick question, in Melbourne, we were given 3 days notice of level 4 lockdown last week. 1 day before the masks were mandatory I guess less than 10% of people were wearing them, next day 100 %( ok 1 or 2 hiding in corners etc might not have had them on ). What does that tell you what the "vast" majority think of wearing masks? I suspect though that the vast majority might be stupid, or simply not going to live yet again in fear. These days it is one thing after another that we must be scared of. I am over living in fear. If the world is going to end, let it.
"Personal responsibility is dead." I suspect that would be self explanatory but??

@zahlanzi said
"I do support medical dispensations from mask wearing though."
it doesn't work like that. Like you said, wearing masks is to protect others and limit spread. It doesn't really protect you directly. One individual with such "medical dispensation" is enough to infect an entire supermarket. It's like saying speed limits are good but some individuals should have a special privi ...[text shortened]... all supposed to drive within speed limits and not while drunk. We make sacrifices for public safety.

It kinda does work like that if you see it as a compromise though, and the lesser of two evils. I wear a mask and have done for a while but It’s like herd immunity, you don’t need or realistically expect 100% immunity it’s a numbers game. As long as the vast majority wear a mask I think we can get away with not imprisoning vulnerable people in their homes.
Vaccines and masks are used to break the chain of infection it’s never about 100% of people being vaccinated and a 100% of people should not be expected to wear masks either.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It also didn't help that, in the UK, the chief medical advisor said the benefits of masks were minimal and spoke about the risk of self-contamination when wearing them.

I think, properly maintained, they have a place (for those able to wear them) but many people I see just shoving them into pockets and then putting them back on later. (Negating their effectiveness).

I think that comment was made at a time of PPE shortages in the NHS and they probably didn’t want Joe Public competing for supplies.
The mechanics are simple enough, it reduces your infection bubble dramatically which along with reasonable social distancing helps any economy open up quicker and stay open longer.

@kevcvs57 said
I think in certain countries mask wearing or not wearing has become far too politicised for a rational debate about compromises between public health and protection against the ostracism of the medically and psychologically vulnerable.

When are you going to "rationally debate it" here?

Why is "protection against the ostracism of the medically and psychologically vulnerable" an equal countervailing consideration to the public health i.e. avoiding as many people as possible from catching and spreading a deadly, highly contagious disease which will kill over a million people worldwide this year?