17 Jul 11
Originally posted by generalissimoutherpendragon has expressed his dissatisfaction with Bush and with the GOP many times. So has whodey. The opposition to "progressivism" in the U.S. is quite a bit more complex than you seem to realize.
[utherpendragon] always minimizing Bush's policies and the role they played in adding to America's debt, opting instead to shift all the blame to Obama and his "progressive cronies".
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFAnd yet both have declared unequivocally that America's deficit, and/or the possible failure to reach an agreement on the debt ceiling, is the sole responsibility of the Obama administration above all else.
utherpendragon has expressed his dissatisfaction with Bush and with the GOP many times. So has whodey. The opposition to "progressivism" in the U.S. is quite a bit more complex than you seem to realize.
Perhaps you have some difficulty in realizing that expressing some token disagreement with Bush and the GOP doesn't automatically turn their subsequent partisan statements non-partisan.
The opposition to "progressivism" in the U.S. is quite a bit more complex than you seem to realize.
You're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe about what I "seem to realize".
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by generalissimoSo you've dropped the "uncritical adoration of the GOP" silliness. Good.
Perhaps you have some difficulty in realizing that expressing some token disagreement with Bush and the GOP doesn't automatically turn their subsequent partisan statements non-partisan.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFIts ironic that you of all people should accuse me of being "silly" when you have the nerve to come here and play mind-reader, as you often do, with your blind guesses about what other posters believe or cease from believing.
So you've dropped the "uncritical adoration of the GOP" silliness. Good.
well, however enjoyable these infantile games may be to you Im not interested, utherpendragon's uncritical adoration of the GOP is in full display, and this won't be concealed by your clumsy denials. Troll on FMF, troll on.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by generalissimoThere's no mind reading involved, generalissimo. Just regular reading. You wrote about utherpendragon and whodey's "uncritical adoration of the GOP" on the previous page. It's just not true. They have both been unequivocally critical of Bush and GOP countless times. For you to attempt to simplify the nature of opposition to "progressivism" in this way casts doubt over your entire analysis of the issue.
Its ironic that you of all people should accuse me of being "silly" when you have the nerve to come here and play mind-reader, as you often do, with your blind guesses about what other posters believe or cease from believing.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFYou wrote about utherpendragon and whodey's "uncritical adoration of the GOP" on the previous page
There's no mind reading involved, generalissimo. Just regular reading. You [b]wrote about utherpendragon and whodey's "uncritical adoration of the GOP" on the previous page. It's just not true. They have both been unequivocally critical of Bush and GOP countless times. For you to attempt to simplify the nature of opposition to "progressivism" in this way casts doubt over your entire analysis of the issue.[/b]
Oh good to see you're not employing any supernatural powers, you're suggestion that I dropped this charge did for a second make me think otherwise.
It's just not true
What other alternative explanations do you have for whodey's and uther's reluctance to hold republicans in Congress accountable for their stalling tactics, their refusal to consider tax increases, their overall hostility to Obama, etc, in addition of course to whodey's and uther's tendency to shift all the blame for the deficit to the Obama adminstration despite all the spending that took place under Bush's administration, including the initial stimulus spending?
For you to attempt to simplify the nature of opposition to "progressivism" in this way casts doubt over your entire analysis of the issue.
I haven't attempted to simplify anything, not even once have I actually said the nature of opposition to progressivism in america necessarily entailed support for the GOP, all I've said is that both uther and whodey have continually failed to note the transgressions of republicans, in relation to the deficit, while always blaming Obama and the democrats for everything. I think our exchange only casts doubts over your intellectual honesty, nothing else.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by generalissimoDishonesty? You seem to want to go ad hominem on this. There's really no need to. Your characterization of utherpendragon and whodey's opposition to Obama, their opposition to "progressivism", and their thoughts on the GOP are patently mistaken in my view. If others think you're right, then they will think you are right. Calling me a troll or calling me a liar, as you seem to at some point almost every time we disagree about something, is not going to add any credence to your claims about utherpendragon and whodey.
I think our exchange only casts doubts over your intellectual honesty, nothing else.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFYou seem to want to go ad hominem on this
Dishonesty? You seem to want to go ad hominem on this. There's really no need to. Your characterization of utherpendragon and whodey's opposition to Obama, their opposition to "progressivism", and their thoughts on the GOP are patently mistaken in my view. If others think you're right, then they will think you are right. Calling me a troll or calling me a ...[text shortened]... something, is not going to add any credence to your claims about utherpendragon and whodey.
You evidently have only a superficial understanding of what an ad hominem really is, otherwise you wouldn't make such a ludicrous suggestion.
Its very late here where I am, and Im rather tired, so I'll just quote trusty wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem#Common_misconceptions
Gratuitous verbal abuse or "name-calling" itself is not an ad hominem or a logical fallacy.[8][9][10][11][12]
In order to become a fallacy, the insult would need to be given as a reason for believing some conclusion. An example would be, "X is idiotically ignorant [of politics], so why should we listen to him now?"
Never at any point have I said you're wrong because you're dishonest, I have only said that your intellectual honesty is questionable in the context of your reluctance to accept certain patterns in whodey's and uther's posting history on the subject of the US deficit.
Your characterization of utherpendragon and whodey's opposition to Obama, their opposition to "progressivism", and their thoughts on the GOP are patently mistaken in my view
Yes, you have made it very clear that in your view my thoughts are "patently mistaken". There's no need for reiteration.
If others think you're right, then they will think you are right
Yes, Im sure that is usually how logical reasoning flows, Im yet to meet anybody who can simultaneously hold conflicting views on the exact same matter, hence if they'll think Im right they certainly won't also think Im wrong.
Calling me a troll or calling me a liar, as you seem to at some point almost every time we disagree about something, is not going to add any credence to your claims about utherpendragon and whodey.
Indeed. Which is why I never said it would add credence to my claims, I was merely making an observation. Interestingly your claim that I somehow thought identifying you as a troll would make my assertions true is in itself a sign of intellectual dishonesty.
well anyway, Im off to bed now. Good Night.
17 Jul 11
2 edits
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperNobody disputes this for one second.
I think it's very evident that Whodey and Uther are both right wing partisans...
Uther [is] famous for repeating Republican buzz phrases verbatim - i.e. "lame stream media", "tax & spend"
You only have to spend a few minutes looking at right wing partisan blogs and places like freerepublic.com to realize that these buzz phrases are used extensively by countless people who are most decidedly not uncritical or adoring of the GOP.
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17 Jul 11
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperWell, with Uther, come on. If your preferred system of government is pulling a sword out of a rock to become leader, you're probably not a liberal!
I think it's very evident that Whodey and Uther are both right wing partisans, especially Uther who's famous for repeating Republican buzz phrases verbatim - i.e. "lame stream media", "tax & spend", etc.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFTruth is very few Republicans are uncritical or adoring of the GOP. I would say none of the regular "right wingers" that post here match that description.
Nobody disputes this for one second.
[b]Uther [is] famous for repeating Republican buzz phrases verbatim - i.e. "lame stream media", "tax & spend"
You only have to spend a few minutes looking at right wing partisan blogs and places like freerepublic.com to realize that these buzz phrases are used extensively by countless people who are most decidedly not uncritical or adoring of the GOP.[/b]