27 Nov 04
Originally posted by nemesioAnd I say again that I do not think Bill Maher is "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives". I don't see that at all. I deny that I am cynical as well. He and I may be "contemptuously distrustful of fundamentalist christians and their motives" but that does not make us cynics.
Rwingo, did you read what I wrote? I said:
[b]Cynical: contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives.
This is, without question, a trait Bill Mahar (you, I, Shav, and
other so-called 'liberals'😉 share.
I'm glad he's willing to take a stand on the 'Christian garbage'
largely because most of the stuff he takes on isn't 'Christ ...[text shortened]... h (despite what you might maintain) can in fact have
a positive impact upon people.
Nemesio[/b]
The positive impact religion can have is overwhelmed by its negative impact by such a wide margin as to make it negligible. Religion is an inherently pernicious institution at its very core. The fundamentalist version is especially so. But because the more liberal versions of it are not quite as bad doesn't mean that they are, on the whole, benificial. Far from it.
27 Nov 04
Originally posted by rwingettRob.
And I say again that I do not think Bill Maher is "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives". I don't see that at all. I deny that I am cynical as well. He and I may be "contemptuously distrustful of fundamentalist christians and their motives" but that does not make us cynics.
The positive impact religion can have is overwhelmed by i ...[text shortened]... s of it are not quite as bad doesn't mean that they are, on the whole, benificial. Far from it.
He is just shallow.
That is the easiest way of saying it.
No real ability to see the universe. Shallow. Tied up in ideas that never leave earth.
27 Nov 04
1 edit
I am sorry that your bigotry blinds you to this fact.
Given that one of his own shows was called 'Be More
Cynical,' I'd have to give more credence to the definition
of the word in the English language and his own specific
claim than to yours.
He is contemptuously distrustful of more than just fundamentalist
Christians, or haven't you been paying attention. Just because
you agree with him doesn't make him (or you) any less
contemptuous.
You seem to think the cynicism is an insult. I don't and Maher
certainly doesn't.
The so-called overwhelming impact of religion on the world
is the subject of debate. Most religious people are non-obstrusive,
non-dogmatic, and non-imposing. I don't know where you get
your statistics, but I'd like you to back up your claim that acts
made on behalf of religion are necessarily malicious, or even
that the majority of them are.
Nemesio
27 Nov 04
Originally posted by nemesioI have seen Bill Maher live. I've read one of his books. I've seen him numerous times on various TV shows. I still reject your cynical label of him. To "be more cynical" does not make one a full blown cynic. Perhaps you are confusing cynicism with critical thinking skills.
I am sorry that your bigotry blinds you to this fact.
Given that one of his own shows was called 'Be More
Cynical,' I'd have to give more credence to the definition
of the word in the English language and his own specific
claim than to yours.
He is contemptuously distrustful of more than just fundamentalist
Christians, or haven't you been paying ...[text shortened]... ehalf of religion are necessarily malicious, or even
that the majority of them are.
Nemesio
I did not say that acts committed on behalf of religion are necessarily malicious. I said that the institution of religion itself is pernicious. The fact that any good comes out of the whole affair at all is in spite of religion and not because of it. There are many fine christians that do many good deeds. I have never denied that (even though at times it may seem like it). But they would be good people anyway, they don't need religion to make them so. The institution of religion itself is an onerous burden on mankind, both psychologically and intellectually.
27 Nov 04
2 edits
Originally posted by rwingettExcept...
I have seen Bill Maher live. I've read one of his books. I've seen him numerous times on various TV shows. I still reject your cynical label of him. To "be more cynical" does not make one a full blown cynic. Perhaps you are confusing c ...[text shortened]... rous burden on mankind, both psychologically and intellectually.
He can't think. He is a parrot. At best.
If you doubt this, then give an original thought that he produced.
As opposed to me. I think that in wandering moments of mesmorism, I converse with myself in the future. Thus when I go on vacation, I blast the world with "Mongolia" and the week i return, the burial place of Ghingas Khan is announced. A plane wreck occurs with the same crew that I flew with. And the god-damned flies of the horse planes all die of cold hard fact.
27 Nov 04
2 edits
Originally posted by rwingettYou can deny it all you want. You can deny it on behalf of Maher
And I say again that I do not think Bill Maher is "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives". I don't see that at all. I deny that I am cynical as well.
all you want. The fact is that he view himself, and others view him
as cynical. If you want to 'redefine' the word to mean something
other than it means, then good right ahead. But the majority of
the world who still abide by its common definition will see Maher
as cynical (including himself).
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/TV/9908/12/bill.maher/
When he's not hosting his show, Maher can also be seen on the
stand-up comedy circuit. There, he's been known to tell his audiences
that the country isn't cynical enough for his tastes: "If you think that
Rosie O'Donnell and Penny Marshall are getting their clothes at Kmart,"
he says, "you need to get more cynical, not less cynical."
...
A cynical attitude isn't just a bit from his routine -- it's a personal stance
he urges others to adopt. "I think I'm going to call the special, 'Get
More Cynical,'" he says, "because all we hear in this country is, you
know, we're too cynical.
"And I think we're not cynical enough. I think we have to get more
cynical, because we're too stupid; we're too naive; we're too easily
sold to; we're too easily scared by the people who sell us products.
And one of those products is politics, and politicians.
"And until we catch on to their tricks and can resist the advertising,
we're going to be in the bad shape we're in. We need to be more
cynical about it, yes."
27 Nov 04
1 edit
Originally posted by nemesioWhen you say "cynical" and when Bill Maher says "cynical" you are not saying the same thing. If you choose to define cynicism as being "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives" then that is not the same thing Bill Maher is talking about. As I alluded to earlier, he is equating cynicism with a sharpening of one's critical thinking skills, and the adoption of a healthy dose of skepticism. That is clearly not the same thing as being "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives".
You can deny it all you want. You can deny it on behalf of Maher
all you want. The fact is that he view himself, and others view him
as cynical. If you want to 'redefine' the word to mean something
other than it means, then good rig ...[text shortened]... bad shape we're in. We need to be more
cynical about it, yes."
27 Nov 04
1 edit
lol!
Personally I find it funny that even comedian's routine is being debated for how funny it is. It's hardly as if you can define any facts, premises, etc. Humour doesn't open itself up to logic...
Is he funny?
I, personally, dont have a clue who he is, but donchya think his fame is a good enough measure of how "funny" he is?
MÅ¥HÅRM
27 Nov 04
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettThis is funny. Maybe you should be a commedian.
When you say "cynical" and when Bill Maher says "cynical" you are not saying the same thing. If you choose to define cynicism as being "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives" then that is not the same thing Bill Mahe ...[text shortened]... being "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives".
I didn't 'choose' to define the term. The definition
I used is the commonly accepted definition. You are
the one 'redefining' the term.
You like Occam's Razor, right?
Given the fact that there are many words that mean,
'sharpening one's critical thinking skills' and 'skepticism,'
why wouldn't he just use these terms?
Perhaps because he doesn't simply mean that.
And if you don't think that you are contemptuous, then
we, once again, don't agree on the commonly accepted
definition for that word either.
Nemesio
27 Nov 04
Originally posted by nemesioI don't know why Bill Maher chose to use the word "cynical" five years ago (which is how old your source is), he seemed to be using the term very loosely and certainly was not using a rigorous definition. Perhaps he merely liked the sound of the word better than "incredulous", which is what he's actually talking about, if you actually pay attention to the content of the article. But he most certainly is not using it in the sense of being "contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives".
This is funny. Maybe you should be a commedian.
I didn't 'choose' to define the term. The definition
I used is the commonly accepted definition. You are
the one 'redefining' the term.
You like Occam's Razor, right?
Given the fact that there are many words that mean,
'sharpening one's critical thinking skills' and 'skepticism,'
why ...[text shortened]... , once again, don't agree on the commonly accepted
definition for that word either.
Nemesio
Now, speaking for myself, I am contemptuously distrustful of religious fundamentalism. But I am not contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives. I think that humanity and their motives are basically good. So by definition I am not a cynic. A cynic sees no good in anyone.
So for the umpteenth time, I reject the label of cynic for myself, and I challenge you to show me how Bill Maher is a cynic by something other than that he used the word in an interview five years ago.
27 Nov 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeNo, maybe it's human, and therefore uniquely messy.
Mayharm: " .... Humour doesn't open itself up to logic...
...... mmmmh ..... but it does exist ...... maybe humour is divine ...... 😉
"Divine" would then depend on whether you believe god made man and whether he had a sense of humour...
MÅ¥HÅRM