Columbus was Jewish

@AThousandYoung said
Yes that's one of the standard malicious translations Columbus haters often bring up.

In the original it reads either "they would make fine servants" OF GOD i.e. Christians or else "they would make fine subjects".

In either case Columbus was also "a fine servant".

LMAO!

"With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."

Is that a "malicious translation" too?

" Columbus had an economic interest in the enslavement of the Hispaniola natives and for that reason was not eager to baptize them, which attracted criticism from some churchmen." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

@no1marauder said
Comparing the Inca system with the Spanish one is incongruous as even your source notes:

"The Inca and Spanish mita's served different purposes. The Inca mit'a provided public goods, such as maintenance of road networks and sophisticated irrigation and cropping systems that required intercommunity coordination of labor.[7] The majority of Inca subjects performed their ...[text shortened]... sed the decimation of the male native-born population.[10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit%27a

You don't think the Inca used mita based production to feed their soldiers during "foreign wars"?

Or is it different as long as they stay on the continent.

The male native born population in South America seems to be doing just fine in terms of numbers. They're even migrating to the US! I suspect there are more of them now than there were under Incan rule.

@no1marauder said
LMAO!

"With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."

Is that a "malicious translation" too?

It's a description. You don't think a US military commander would describe a remote tribe on Diego Garcia or Easter Island the same way?

Columbus was pointing out that this tribe was of no military significance.

@AThousandYoung said
It's a description. You don't think a US military commander would describe a remote tribe on Diego Garcia or Easter Island the same way?

Columbus was pointing out that this tribe was of no military significance.

That's laughable and you know it.

@AThousandYoung said
You don't think the Inca used mita based production to feed their soldiers during "foreign wars"?

Or is it different as long as they stay on the continent.

The male native born population in South America seems to be doing just fine in terms of numbers. They're even migrating to the US! I suspect there are more of them now than there were under Incan rule.

This is getting ridiculous, you can't possibly believe such BS.

I won't waste further time with such ahistorical nonsense; the depredations that the indigenous populations of the lands the Spanish conquered suffered is a matter of undisputed historical record and your lame "whataboutisms" are absurd.

@AThousandYoung said
That does not seem consistent with the idea that the Spanish Crown was actively and deliberately abusing the indigenous people of the Americas which is also part of the "evil Spanish imperialists" line of arguments.

In any case the source you quote does not agree with your claims:

[quote]Instead of dealing firmly with the rebels, Columbus, who was tired and sick, ...[text shortened]... cas. The Inca and Mexica were already highly civilized people somewhat similar to Classical Greece.

The Spanish Crown was actively and deliberately abusing the indigenous people of the Americas which is also part of the "evil Spanish imperialists" line of arguments.


In that case I'd consider forming an alliance with the Crown, not the King - just the Crown! 😏

@no1marauder said
This is getting ridiculous, you can't possibly believe such BS.

I won't waste further time with such ahistorical nonsense; the depredations that the indigenous populations of the lands the Spanish conquered suffered is a matter of undisputed historical record and your lame "whataboutisms" are absurd.

Yes, smallpox did tremendous damage in South America before the immune systems of the locals were strengthened with Old World blood.

This is a Debates forum and I think I heard you were a lawyer. In either a Debate or a formal court prosecution nobody requires the person arguing a point to actually believe it.

What I actually do believe is that the Spanish imperialists were not uniquely evil beings and that there is a lot of room for doubt in the criticisms made of Columbus and the Spanish Empire. There are many, many fallacies consistently made by critics of Columbus and the Spanish Empire and it amuses me to point them out.

@mchill said
The Spanish Crown was actively and deliberately abusing the indigenous people of the Americas which is also part of the "evil Spanish imperialists" line of arguments.


In that case I'd consider forming an alliance with the Crown, not the King - just the Crown! 😏

Yes the Crown also included the legendary Isabella of Castile. You can't ignore her.

@no1marauder said
LMAO!

"With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."

Is that a "malicious translation" too?

" Columbus had an economic interest in the enslavement of the Hispaniola natives and for that reason was not eager to baptize them, which attracted criticism from some churchmen." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Yes. A better translation would be:

"Fifty men could subjugate them all and make them do whatever they want."

EDIT

" Columbus had an economic interest...

It would be better for you to reference the criticisms of the Churchmen in question. As it is now you are asking me to respond to an anonymous Wikipedia author's interpretation of a Spanish language article. By now I hope I have shown this sort of thing introduces errors of translation and bias.

This is the source that is referenced for that statement:

https://books.google.com/books?id=SwtMUtesSDEC&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false

Unfortunately my Spanish fluency is weak.

EDIT For the lols

YouTube : Horrible Histories Do the Pac...

@AThousandYoung said
Yes, smallpox did tremendous damage in South America before the immune systems of the locals were strengthened with Old World blood.

This is a Debates forum and I think I heard you were a lawyer. In either a Debate or a formal court prosecution nobody requires the person arguing a point to actually believe it.

What I actually do believe is that the Spanish imper ...[text shortened]... consistently made by critics of Columbus and the Spanish Empire and it amuses me to point them out.

"They were not uniquely evil beings .." .. is a correct statement. People in that era had different standards which we have abandoned. Those poor indigenous peoples were not soo poor and perscuted, as they were themselves persecuting, enslaving and killing other tribes as depicted clearly in the movie Apocalypto.

@AThousandYoung said
In either a Debate or a formal court prosecution nobody requires the person arguing a point to actually believe it.

As Thomas Shelby told Winston Churchill on Peaky Blinders,

Conviction introduces emotion which is the enemy of oratory.

YouTube : Peaky Blinders Churchill

@Rajk999 said
"They were not uniquely evil beings .." .. is a correct statement. People in that era had different standards which we have abandoned. Those poor indigenous peoples were not soo poor and perscuted, as they were themselves persecuting, enslaving and killing other tribes as depicted clearly in the movie Apocalypto.

Apocalypto was a terrible movie which should not be relied on for history.

YouTube : History Buffs 23 minutes Apoc...

EDIT - On rewatching the above I see some flaws in Nick Hodges' analysis. The movie is not supposed to be pre-Columbian. So maybe Apocalypto is not as bad as I thought but still you cannot trust a Mel Gibson historic movie. He inserts white Anglo-American bias into everything.

@vivify said
https://www.reuters.com/science/columbus-was-sephardic-jew-study-finds-2024-10-13/

The 15th-century explorer Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew from Western Europe, Spanish scientists said on Saturday, after using DNA analysis to tackle a centuries-old mystery.

Columbus may have been covertly Jewish. Very interesting since he was a Catholic, who at th ...[text shortened]... e now know a lot more about Columbus showing otherwise, and the propaganda used to promote Columbus.

It's not very reliable information.

[url=https://x.com/BorealBaron/status/[WORD TOO LONG]/url]

It appears the actual findings do not limit it to someone who is a Sephardic Jew, and that the organization doing the research is a Catalan nationalist organization that is involved in other very fabulous claims.

It's not good history.

@Philokalia said
It's not very reliable information.

[url=https://x.com/BorealBaron/status/[WORD TOO LONG]/url]

It appears the actual findings do not limit it to someone who is a Sephardic Jew, and that the organization doing the research is a Catalan nationalist organization that is involved in other very fabulous claims.

It's not good history.

This is the link with all the unnecessary parts removed that were making it too long:
 
https://x.com/BorealBaron/status/1845270995063488783

@AThousandYoung said
This is the link with all the unnecessary parts removed that were making it too long:
 
https://x.com/BorealBaron/status/1845270995063488783

Thanks much.

I do not seem to remember links breaking like this back when I was a more active poster, in the golden era of Duchess64 (in Debates) and FMF (in Spirituality).