As a Christian I believe that God started our universe. Going
beyond that will lead us somewhere I don't want to go in this
thread.
Okay, if there is no God, was there a beginning of the universe?
Was there ever a time when nothing was anywhere?
If there such a time, or there wasn't, why?
I basically just want to see what others here think, I'm not
trying to setup anyone up. If there are points that come from this
I'd like to take them into other posts. Here I'd just like to get
a feel for other people's beliefs. If the word 'belief' offends, I'm
not trying to offend please express your views in the terms that
best reflect your position.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayBeats me. First Cause is a real conundrum.
Okay, if there is no God, was there a beginning of the universe?
Was there ever a time when nothing was anywhere?
If there such a time, or there wasn't, why?
A veritable paradox. Turtles all the way down.
I really don't have a better answer, but in my
usual style, I'll be ready to poke holes in the
first answer put forth, whatever it may be.
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by KellyJayWell, I'll share my view. I think that the universe is evolutionary. Just like everything else. Stars, planets, solar systems are born, mature, age and die. I thnk that our sun was born at one point in time though normal processes (just look up birth of a star on google). Then the planets aligned around it due to it's gravitational pull. Then as gravity continued to settle throughout, moons, asteriods, comets, etc were pulled into place. As the solar system "grew up", gravity and celestial bodies stabilized into what we have today.
As a Christian I believe that God started our universe. Going
beyond that will lead us somewhere I don't want to go in this
thread.
Okay, if there is no God, was there a beginning of the universe?
Was there ever a time when nothing was anywhere?
If there such a time, or there wasn't, why?
I basically just want to see what others here think, I ...[text shortened]... trying to offend please express your views in the terms that
best reflect your position.
Kelly
I think that our solar system is just one grain of sand on a beach of a universe. I also feel that our solar system is most likely in orbit within a larger system and that we are part of the lifecycle of that system.
Now the universe is a completely different issue. Asking how the universe was created, how big it is, how old it is, etc are questions that most likely won't be answered before our own sun gets to the end of it's lifecycle.
Honeslty, I think trying to figure them out at our technology level is moot.
Well, you said you wanted to hear beliefs and not debate, so I'll leave it at that.
Originally posted by CribsPoke away, Doctor! (Seems like I can remember saying that before in an office somewhere)
Beats me. First Cause is a real conundrum.
A veritable paradox. Turtles all the way down.
I really don't have a better answer, but in my
usual style, I'll be ready to poke holes in the
first answer put forth, whatever it may be.
Dr. Cribs
I'm not sure I see a difference between saying, 'Who created the universe,' and, 'Who created God.' Either way, something existed since before time was. The founder of Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy, wrote a gloss on the Lord's Prayer which is used in every Sunday worship service. The last line reads, 'For God is infinite, all-power, all Life, Truth, Love, over all, and All.' If the God is All, and God is infinite, then God is the universe. Everything is graced, every atom of every star.
I think modern scientific theory think of the universe as a cyclical thing. It comes into being, lives a while (billions of years), collapses upon itself and then rebirths. It never wasn't in existence. This is consistent with the way that Christians view God; He never wasn't in existence.
The two views aren't as discordant as they appear, I think. Things get sticky when people try to define what 'God' is; things get sticky in science when we try to apply Newtonian physics on a sub-atomic level, too.
This thread contains stuff to complicated to put into words at 1:13 AM. I'm sure many a free-thinker will have a comment before long.
But the fact is, science can't explain how matter suddenly came into existence. Neither does religion explain where God came from.
Nemesio
Cribs, Yes I did answer his question. He didn't ask one. He simply wanted to hear people's views, so I gave him mine. Now get outta my face.
Nemesio (sp?), Absolutely right! When we get down to the question of "where did it all start", no one has an answer or even an educated guess. I don't think there will ever be one. Another question with no answer "who or what is god?". Nearly every religion has a different interpretation. Some say he is Karma, Mother Nature, or a cute old man that sits in the clouds. Again, no one has an answer and never will. Both of these will remain a matter of personal opinion long after I am gone.
Originally posted by KellyJayThe universe is roughly 13 billion years old. They can measure this by measuring the space between various stars. The space between various stars is so expansive they measure it in light years instead of distances.
As a Christian I believe that God started our universe. Going
beyond that will lead us somewhere I don't want to go in this
thread.
Okay, if there is no God, was there a beginning of the universe?
Was there ever a time when nothing was anywhere?
If there such a time, or there wasn't, why?
I basically just want to see what others here think, I ...[text shortened]... trying to offend please express your views in the terms that
best reflect your position.
Kelly
The universe is expanding. All the stars are expanding further and further away from each other.
Blow up a balloon. Think of the stars on the surface of this balloon.
Now the surface is is basically the 3-d expansion of a 2-d situation. The stars you have to imagine as a 3-d situation expanding into a 4-d expansion.
That's why if you travel upwards and onwards you will eventually return to the spot you left. Don't worry about it though.
Because things are expanding it is a quite common belief there had to be a starting point. You would call this the big bang.
Before the big bang our universe didn't exist. Before the big bang everything was infinitaly small, yet infinately massive (qua weight). When this became unstable it exploded into a universe.
Before this there were probably other universes, because universes will probably eventually collapse into themselves (if they can expand it stands to reason they will eventually stop expanding and then shrink again).
Because space is infinite, there are problably infinate numbers of ever expanding en imploding universes through-out space.
Watch start trek dude....that's where I get all my sci-fi info!
physisists have woked out what happened meer nanoseconds before the "big bang". but they can't work out anything before that...
alrighty-so what if the universe was never not in existence? well-what happens to time then? "The stars (are) a 3-d situation expanding into a 4-d expansion." the 4th being time. but if the universe was never in existence then time cannot exist, can it? as everything has to have a starting point (there is an end of the univese-that's the end of the first 3...)
and as for the expanding and contracting bit, why does it contract till it's so small? wouldn't it be forced to stop when it got to so a certain level of smallness? 😛
Originally posted by geniusThe 4th doesn't have to be time. I-time (imaginery time) is a dimension, but doesn't have to neccesairly be the dimension I'm talking about.
physisists have woked out what happened meer nanoseconds before the "big bang". but they can't work out anything before that...
alrighty-so what if the universe was never not in existence? well-what happens to time then? "The stars (are) a 3-d situation expanding into a 4-d expansion." the 4th being time. but if the universe was never in existence th ...[text shortened]... t's so small? wouldn't it be forced to stop when it got to so a certain level of smallness? 😛
If you stand on the earth and walk one direction, you will eventually come back to the same point. That's two dimensional. Now, you can leave the earth and shoot off into space. That makes everything 3 dimensional. Now, as you shoot off into space, eventually you will return to the same spot. This is the third dimension in practise. You can (like you can shoot out into space) shoot out of the third dimension. That's what forms the space-curve which leads to you returning to the same spot you left from.
Our universe wasn't 'always' there. It had a start. And before that it was something else and before that something else again. Presumably it was a universe. imploded, exploded, was a universe again, imploded...infinitaly.
The big bang blows things off into space. The velocity expands the universe.
The reason it would contract until it was that small is because of mass and gravity. The compacter and heavier it becomes, the more it will draw in. Eventually everything will be drawn in and then it will become so small and unstable that it will explode again.
the earth was formed over billions of years by rocks colliding with each other. About 4.5 billion years ago the majority of rocks colliding had collided and formed the soft hot mass in the center and the hard crust on top of the earth.
That's basically it.
As I understand it, there are three theories regarding the future of the universe (in lay terms, since that's as best I understand it):
1) Starting from an infinitely small, infinitely massive point, it explodes (called Big Bang, for short, even though the theory has been refined since this term) and keeps expanding. Things continue to get farther and farther away, gravitational pull gets weaker and weaker, the universe cools off, everything ceases.
2) Starting from the same point, it explodes, but reaches a maximum size before it begins to collapse upon itself, at first slowly then more rapidly until it forms the same infinitely small, infinitely massive point, at which point the cycle begins anew.
3) Starting from the same point, it explodes but reaches (or has reached) a statis, a complete stability where the size is always in flux, but remains constant (in terms of cubic area).
My understanding is that most scientists accept #2, but I don't know this for certain.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesioI think those come close to covering the possibilities, more or less. AFAICT, the current thinking is that (1) seems somewhat more likely than (2), but they're still measuring and remeasuring the "dark matter" of the universe to see if there is enough to cause it to recollapse.
As I understand it, there are three theories regarding the future of the universe (in lay terms, since that's as best I understand it):
Best Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by shavixmirI've seen estimates ranging from roughly 13*10^9 (13 billion for Americans, at least. 13 thousand million? is that how Brits would say it?) to 20*10^9 (20 billion) or so. The time since the Big Bang is still more than a little controversial.
The universe is roughly 13 billion years old. They can measure this by measuring the space between various stars. The space between various stars is so expansive they measure it in light years instead of distances.
"Light years" are distances. A light year is defined as the distance light travels in a year, i.e., speed of light times length of year, roughly:
LY = 3*10^8 m/s * 3*10^7 s = 9*10^15 m
(at least to one significant digit 🙂 ) Notice how the units work.
Best Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by KellyJayYou say you believe that god created the universe. This immediately begs the question: well, who created god? If god can be thought of a first cause, or an uncaused cause, then why couldn't the universe itself be thought of in the same terms? The universe could be thought of as an uncaused cause, several variations of which have been outlined in some of the preceding posts.
As a Christian I believe that God started our universe. Going
beyond that will lead us somewhere I don't want to go in this
thread.
Okay, if there is no God, was there a beginning of the universe?
Was there ever a time when nothing was anywhere?
If there such a time, or there wasn't, why?
I basically just want to see what others here think, I ...[text shortened]... trying to offend please express your views in the terms that
best reflect your position.
Kelly
Inserting the concept of god as the first cause solves nothing. It fails to explain why god would be non-contingent i.e. an uncaused cause. It also fails to explain why an uncaused cause would necessarily be god. It could be that the universe itself (in some manifestation) is an uncaused cause which does not require a god.
But to get back to your question; Was there a beginning to the universe? and Was there ever a time when "nothing was everywhere"? I don't know. There are many theories which seek to explain such questions, but the bottom line is that nobody knows for sure. A recurring big bang scenario seems a likely candidate. But the point is that I'm perfectly content to say that I don't know for sure, and that I don't feel the need to invent a god to help fill in the blanks in our knowledge.
Hey! What did God do the day before She started creating? Why do you suppose she chose to create the earth people and all?
Maybe it was a bet with another Supreme Being? Maybe it was a joke? I mean, look at us. There are some pretty funny things about our bodies, aren't there?