05 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidYour comparison does not hold. Firstly, NATO did not annex Kosovo. Secondly, there were mass murders of civilians going on, carried out by Serb forces; NATO put a stop to that because Milosovic and his convicted war-criminal general Mladic wouldn't.
@kevcvs57
NATO invaded Serbia and annexed Kosovo. That is no different than what Russia did in Ukraine.
05 Oct 22
@moonbus saidYes it does. NATO bombed Serbia until Kosovo was annexed.
Your comparison does not hold. Firstly, NATO did not annex Kosovo. Secondly, there were mass murders of civilians going on, carried out by Serb forces; NATO put a stop to that because Milosovic and his convicted war-criminal general Mladic wouldn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
It was a civil war and no, there were no mass murders of civilians. NATO had no right to intervene in a civil war and even if it did there was a genocide in Ukraine. The Nazis were ethically cleansing ethnic Russians.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ukrainian-rightists-burn-alive-39-at-odessa-union-building/
05 Oct 22
@moonbus saidDoes that apply to all NATO nations with nukes as well? Will saner people refuse?
No, I'm not saying Putin is not capable of ordering a nuclear first strike; however, I think saner people in Russia would refuse to launch a nuclear first strike even if Putin ordered it.
Nothing says America (or any other nuclear country, for that matter) cannot use nuclear weapons in retaliation for a Russian nuclear strike against a non-NATO country. It's an option, no ...[text shortened]... g his removal from power by an apparently accidental death if he won't relinquish power voluntarily.
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05 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidBecause of where your pay-cheques come from. You know this already.
You mean a peace deal is not an option? Why not?
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@metal-brain saidDon't use words whose meanings you do not know.
@kevcvs57
NATO invaded Serbia and annexed Kosovo. That is no different than what Russia did in Ukraine.
Serbia had annexed Kosovo. The UN - it wasn't only NATO - allowed it to get out of that annexation and become its own, independent country again.
Also, NATO isn't raping and mass-murdering innocent Kosovar children. Russia is doing that in Ukraine.
05 Oct 22
@Shallow-Blue
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/10/04/zelensky-signs-decree-ruling-out-peace-talks-with-putin-as-impossible/
You are lying.
06 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidi see a lot of talk from you about one side and one side alone ending the war to avoid escalation. I don't ever see you talking about what should Putin do to end the war.
Does that make me a traitor? Peacemaker die?
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/greenwald-no-one-talks-about-ending-ukraine-war-fear-being-labeled-traitor
Isn't it about time grown ups talk about how we can end the war instead of risking WW3? Is avoiding a nuclear war unacceptable to the Putin haters? Hyperinflation to pay for WW3 is better?
Here in the USA we ...[text shortened]... tary weapons to give to Ukraine instead. Our priority seems to be destroying wealth. Think about it.
Surely i am mistaken, right? You're not suggesting everyone should stop military aid towards Ukraine with no concession from Putin, right?
06 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidMaybe he’s aware of Putins red lines and finds them impossible to accommodate domestically. Putin is not the only one with an eye on his domestic standing
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/10/04/zelensky-signs-decree-ruling-out-peace-talks-with-putin-as-impossible/
07 Oct 22
@zahlanzi saidYou seem to be implying that Putin had unreasonable demands. Are you saying Ukraine giving up NATO aspirations is unreasonable?
i see a lot of talk from you about one side and one side alone ending the war to avoid escalation. I don't ever see you talking about what should Putin do to end the war.
Surely i am mistaken, right? You're not suggesting everyone should stop military aid towards Ukraine with no concession from Putin, right?
07 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidThe west has always been at war with Russia since the Bolshevik Revolution. The west has been suppressing socialism ever since by trying to sabotage it at every turn as soon as it pops up, like whack a mole. Then the west lies and says socialism collapsed on it's own weight as if socialism itself is to blame for failure.
Maybe he’s aware of Putins red lines and finds them impossible to accommodate domestically. Putin is not the only one with an eye on his domestic standing
Those moles we keep whacking, they are failures. It is their own fault.
@metal-brain saidI’m saying that anyone trying to formulate any third parties defence, foreign policy and trading arrangements is unreasonable and Putin’s invasion had nothing to do with Ukraines potential for joining nato because there was no potential.
You seem to be implying that Putin had unreasonable demands. Are you saying Ukraine giving up NATO aspirations is unreasonable?
Like Finland and Sweden it’s much more likely since Putin’s invasion, but hey you think he’s still a smart cookie, you know he’s getting older like everyone else, he’s not the same guy who took the crown from Yeltsin.
07 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidStop lying. It had everything to do with NATO. You are an idiot.
I’m saying that anyone trying to formulate any third parties defence, foreign policy and trading arrangements is unreasonable and Putin’s invasion had nothing to do with Ukraines potential for joining nato because there was no potential.
Like Finland and Sweden it’s much more likely since Putin’s invasion, but hey you think he’s still a smart cookie, you know he’s getting older like everyone else, he’s not the same guy who took the crown from Yeltsin.
@metal-brain said"You seem to be implying that Putin had unreasonable demands"
You seem to be implying that Putin had unreasonable demands. Are you saying Ukraine giving up NATO aspirations is unreasonable?
Fuk yeah
"Are you saying Ukraine giving up NATO aspirations is unreasonable?"
Yes, especially now that Putin invaded. No negotiations no guarantees of territorial integrity no nothing. Stay out of NATO so i can continue bullying you. Not to mention there was no way Ukraine could get an unanimous vote to join from existing members for like 10-20 years.
This never was about Russia's security. This was about having access to Ukrainian resources for cheap and stroking the ego of an aging KGB fossil with dreams of resurrecting USSR. Need i remind you Russia already borders NATO countries? That the absence of a lengthy common border is not what is stopping NATO from threatening a nuclear power?
Eh i am wasting my time with you. Yes. Putin demands (which last I checked also include territorial claims) are unreasonable, to put it mildly
@Zahlanzi
So let them keep dying fighting each other while we are forced to pay for it.
That is what you want?
Ukraine's NATO aspirations is why Russia invaded. Had Ukraine stayed neutral it never would have happened, but Ukraine is puppet of the USA. The USA overthrew Ukraine by coup. If Russia had overthrown Mexico and installed a puppet government and armed them do you think the USA would not invade?
My government invaded Syria and annexed 1/3 of that country, the oil rich part.
If Russia pulls out of Ukraine would you support the USA pulling out of Syria in return?