12 Mar 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI grew up on a dairy farm. As interesting as I find this source of methane to be, it cannot compete with natural gas.
Its a very good energy source. I was recently discussing it with my sister (a farmer) and whether or not it is economically viable to use biogas in Zambia. I think she said it was economically viable, but that she doesn't have the know how, but is considering it.
http://www.biogassa.co.za/
http://practicalaction.org/biogas_expertise
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by Metal BrainIt seems that most alternative sources today are in some way connected to fossil fuels. For example the so called renewable corn based ethanol, takes considerable fossil fuels to accomplish the distillation. Once the total cost is calculated, there is hardly any advantage, in fact there may be a net loss if one considers the government subsidy required.
Fossil fuels are the most cost effective source for hydrogen, so that is not a solution. Electrolysis is the other way to get hydrogen. You separate hydrogen from the oxygen in water, so that is just another way to use electricity.
There has been some work on using solar as a way to separate hydrogen from water in a direct way, but that is not a solution yet. We can only hope that becomes a reality some day.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by normbenignThere's no reason we can't use solar distillation.
It seems that most alternative sources today are in some way connected to fossil fuels. For example the so called renewable corn based ethanol, takes considerable fossil fuels to accomplish the distillation. Once the total cost is calculated, there is hardly any advantage, in fact there may be a net loss if one considers the government subsidy required.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by normbenignTrue. Corn is also grown with artificial fertilizers in most cases, which is often petroleum based.
It seems that most alternative sources today are in some way connected to fossil fuels. For example the so called renewable corn based ethanol, takes considerable fossil fuels to accomplish the distillation. Once the total cost is calculated, there is hardly any advantage, in fact there may be a net loss if one considers the government subsidy required.
http://www.ehow.com/list_7221001_fertilizers-made-petroleum.html
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by AThousandYoungPlants are still the most efficient solar collectors around. The chlorophyll molecule is scads more efficient than our best solar cells. All fossil fuels are just compressed plants.
There's no reason we can't use solar distillation.
Solution: Biogas. Convert any sort of quick-growing plant (w/o fertilizer) into natural gas. Just keep breeding bacteria to get a species that is highly efficient at doing this. Landfill biogas in inelegant and relies on "wild" organisms -- we can do much better, speed up the process with catalysts, etc.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by Metal BrainEthanol from corn was an example of how NOT to do innovation:
True. Corn is also grown with artificial fertilizers in most cases, which is often petroleum based.
http://www.ehow.com/list_7221001_fertilizers-made-petroleum.html
Stimulus money! Congressmen! Expensive lunches in Georgetown with lobbyists! "Trusted" third party advisers who stand to benefit from fat government contracts! Mix well! Declare a victory! Run for re-election!
Barf.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by Metal BrainHere's a town in Germany that's making it happen!
I grew up on a dairy farm. As interesting as I find this source of methane to be, it cannot compete with natural gas.
http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/eco-tech-poo-powered-german-town-to-be-the-first-in-the-world/
14 Mar 12
2 edits
I don't know where Obama first heard about algae as a source of alternative energy, but I first heard about it from Exxon Mobil commercials. I'm therefore reluctant to buy into the cynicism and criticism of it as merely another example of government meddling in scientific innovation.
(Sorry, Mr. Speaker, but President Obama didn't make this stuff up.)
I don't know which source of energy will replace conventional oil, but any alternative that is more sustainable will require short-term expenses and sacrifices to achieve long-term advantages. Short of tapping the emergency oil reserves (for which he would no doubt receive political crucifixion) or whipping up a magic wand, neither Obama nor any other president has any means of lowering the price of gasoline to $2.50 per gallon in the short-term.
Edit--
Food for thought:
"We can't drill our way out of this." -Bill O'Reilly
"No presient has the power to increase or to lower gas prices. Those are market forces." -Cal Thomas
14 Mar 12
2 edits
Originally posted by wittywonka
I don't know where Obama first heard about algae as a source of alternative energy, but I first heard about it from Exxon Mobil commercials. I'm therefore reluctant to buy into the cynicism and criticism of it as merely another example of government meddling in scientific innovation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFR-1ltqkcA
(Sorry, Mr. Speaker, b es. Those are market forces." -Cal Thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzEnKdBAb_o
wittywonka -"No presient has the power to increase or to lower gas prices. Those are market forces." -Cal Thomas
Damn hypocritical progressives. In 2006. Right on down the line ! From Sen.Obama,Pelosi, Boxer,etc,etc. They all cried bloody murder that President Bush was responsible for $3 a gallon gas !
Now we got $4+ going to $5 a gallon and the President has nothing to do with it !? 🙄
15 Mar 12
2 edits
Originally posted by utherpendragonAlthough I'd appreciate seeing a source for your accusations, I will say that if indeed they did say as much, then I'm not going to defend them. They were pandering, just like Gingrich and company are pandering currently.wittywonka -"No presient has the power to increase or to lower gas prices. Those are market forces." -Cal Thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzEnKdBAb_o
Damn hypocritical progressives. In 2006. Right on down the line ! From Sen.Obama,Pelosi, Boxer,etc,etc. They all cried bloody murder that President Bush was responsible ...[text shortened]... n gas !
Now we got $4+ going to $5 a gallon and the President has nothing to do with it !? 🙄
Of course, that liberals did so then also does not legitizimize conservatives' efforts to do so now.
15 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by wittywonkaHere are some things Obama can do to reduce the price of gasoline/diesel in the long term.
I don't know where Obama first heard about algae as a source of alternative energy, but I first heard about it from Exxon Mobil commercials. I'm therefore reluctant to buy into the cynicism and criticism of it as merely another example of government meddling in scientific innovation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFR-1ltqkcA
(Sorry, Mr. Speaker, b es. Those are market forces." -Cal Thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzEnKdBAb_o
1. Allow drilling in the ANWR region of Alaska
2. Stop blocking construction of the Keystone pipeline
3. Support an audit of the federal reserve system (as proposed by Ron Paul) so the dollar does not lose more value. When the dollar falls, oil rises.
4. Enforce anti-trust laws and charge oil refiners with price fixing (this is the most important factor) by establishing why profits skyrocket when the price of refined fuel rises.
These can reduce prices in the short term.
5. End the crippling sanctions against Iran.
6. Tell Israel if they bomb Iran they are on their own and say so publicly for the world to hear!
7. This one is for those that don't like 5 and 6. Scare away speculators by suggesting tapping into the strategic oil reserves to protect the fragile economy.
15 Mar 12
Originally posted by wittywonkaA source ? You have amnesia ?
Although I'd appreciate seeing a source for your accusations, I will say that if indeed they did say as much, then I'm not going to defend them. They were pandering, just like Gingrich and company are pandering currently.
Of course, that liberals did so then also does not legitizimize conservatives' efforts to do so now.
15 Mar 12
Originally posted by Metal Brain#1, #3, #5, and #6 won't happen in a million years. I personally think President Obama is centrist enough that he would actually like to make #2 happen, but I think he's playing politics for the time being--I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see him approve it if he gets reelected. I don't know enough about #4 really to comment--wouldn't that be an easy PR battle to win if it were as easy to accomplish as you make it out to be? And I actually like #7, since it uses the emergency reserves without actually using them.
Here are some things Obama can do to reduce the price of gasoline/diesel in the long term.
1. Allow drilling in the ANWR region of Alaska
2. Stop blocking construction of the Keystone pipeline
3. Support an audit of the federal reserve system (as proposed by Ron Paul) so the dollar does not lose more value. When the dollar falls, oil rises.
4 ...[text shortened]... eculators by suggesting tapping into the strategic oil reserves to protect the fragile economy.