Global warming: the chilling effect on free spe...

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
Why are the "global warming" zealots so intent on demonizing anyone with an opinion contrary to their religion?

All right, I’ll bite:

a) Al Gore and the other “global warming” zealots don’t like and trust “ordinary” people, including most Americans. They think they know what’s best for everyone else, so they create a crisis and demand obei ...[text shortened]... American taxpayers to finance their globo-tax transfers to the developing world.

Discuss.

a) Rapidly melting ice caps, increased frequency and intensity of severe weather, heatwaves, drought, cooling, extinction of species, reduced biodiversity... I would say this is a pretty major crisis that "ordinary" people need to know about. Even on the very slight chance that they have got the urgency wrong, it can't hurt our planet to reduce the filthy and copious amount of emissions we are polluting it with.

b) This really is a "theory" of yours and does not have anything to do with the issue at hand.

c) Again, one of your theories which has nothing to do with the issue.

d) There is ALOT more money to be made in oil/coal/unregulated emissions etc and a lot easier. Hence I put it to you that all the people against Global Warming are the exact same ones who are profiteering from these archaic practices.

Originally posted by Esoteric
a) Rapidly melting ice caps...

For much of Earth's history, the world has been ice-free (even at the poles) with iceless periods interrupted by glaciation periods (called glacial epochs). The retreat of ice during a glacial epoch is called an inter-glacial period and this is our PRESENT DAY CLIMATE system.

Check out the Earth's climate record.
http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/geologic%20global%20temp.jpg

6,000 years ago there was a warm period called the Halocene Maximum, and as little as 2,000 years ago there were rises and dips (manmade?).
http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/holecene%20Warming.gif

Here is a schematic reconstruction (solid line) of mean global surface temperature through the last 100 million years, based on analyses of various marine and terrestrial deposits.
http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/Last%20100%20million%20years.gif
The dashed-line extension shows climate model predictions based on a doubling of CO2 levels. Looking at this schematic, I predict we have reached the apex and are in for a 100,000 year or so cooling trend. 🙂

Originally posted by Palynka
So Al Gore and the 'zealots' are actually doing the EU's bidding?

Do you consider this a form of terrorism done by European countries against the United States and its sovereignty?

Edit - Come on, ritter, these EU excuses are getting old.

They did it with genetically-modified food.

Originally posted by Esoteric
...all the people against Global Warming are the exact same ones who are profiteering from these archaic practices.

What you call “archaic” is actually progress and it's desirable. But if you want to live like Java man then go ahead. I prefer modern life with all its conveniences and don’t fancy horses and buggies or wiping my bum with foliage.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
[bEven if CO2 doesn't cause global warming, it can't be good for us, can it? If somebody would like to disprove that statement, please sit in your car in your garage with your car running for a couple of hours and get back to me. That's effectively what we're doing, by not trying to cut back on CO2 (and other) gas emissions.

I know most of you who are aga ...[text shortened]... nough to want to take the rest of us with you? Is there anything we can do to help?

D[/b]

CO2 levels is a difficult one for the scare mongers to push because of the levels we are talking about.

CO2 makes up about .03% of the atmosphere. So if it goes from (as an example) .027% up to .03% the greenies start screeching "OMG OMG CO2 has gone up by 10%"...The other way of looking at it is that CO2 has gone up .003%.

To humans CO2 is harmless, to plants it's beneficial. Suggestion: refrain from this line of argument it makes you look like a dumbarse.

Their argument rests supposedly on the greenhouse effect of CO2 not that the paltry amount is going to harm you physically. In the garage I'm guessing that what would eventually kill you is, lack of oxygen or maybe CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning.

You blokes do yourselves, your cause or your 'argument' (?) no favours by being soooooo theatrical. I am not against being environmentally friendly, I do not have a death wish nor wish that you were dead.

Kyoto has been a total waste of time and effort, I cry for the trees cut down to be made into paper so that screeds of BS about KP may be written on it. I grit my teeth in anger for the amount of my tax dollars spent flying petty bureauRats (probably in business class) around the world to discuss KP

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
What you call “archaic” is actually progress and it's desirable. But if you want to live like Java man then go ahead. I prefer modern life with all its conveniences and don’t fancy horses and buggies or wiping my bum with foliage.

I don't think anyone is advocating a return to "horses and buggies" - the environmental consequences of that would be disastrous (picture every major city drowning in manure).

How is it progress to continue with the status quo? Real progress will only happen if the governments of the world stop effectively subsidising the oil companies and start providing further incentives for the development of new technologies.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Their argument rests supposedly on the greenhouse effect of CO2 not that the paltry amount is going to harm you physically. In the garage I'm guessing that what would eventually kill you is, lack of oxygen or maybe CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning.

To humans CO2 is harmless, to plants it's beneficial. Suggestion: refrain from this line of argument it makes you look like a dumbarse.

Speaking of dumbarses...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia 🙄

Will respond to the rest tomorrow, when sober.

D

Originally posted by xs
For much of Earth's history, the world has been ice-free (even at the poles) with iceless periods interrupted by glaciation periods (called glacial epochs). The retreat of ice during a glacial epoch is called an inter-glacial period and this is our PRESENT DAY CLIMATE system.

Check out the Earth's climate record.
http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/geolog ...[text shortened]... atic, I predict we have reached the apex and are in for a 100,000 year or so cooling trend. 🙂

Yes thanks for your points XS. It is the rate that it is happening at currently which has alarmed scientists. The ice on the caps are melting ALOT quicker than ever before.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=147569

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
What you call “archaic” is actually progress and it's desirable. But if you want to live like Java man then go ahead. I prefer modern life with all its conveniences and don’t fancy horses and buggies or wiping my bum with foliage.

Well you may as well admit you do not have any counter points with your ridiculous nothing post. For someone who posts so much about the topic you seem to know very little.

Depending on an ancient and non renewable fuel source is "progress"? That simply does not make sense. In fact, I would call that stagnation.

And where has anyone said that the answer is to turn into "Java" men? What all the scientists are screaming out for is to find processes and means of reducing emission or finding alternative and more advance and renewable fuel sources. Put simply, more advanced technology. You really are a paranoid right winger aren’t you?

And no-body likes a Government that emits ¼ of the world’s pollution when it represents less than 1% of the population. Especially when they rub their ignorance of the issues in the rest of the worlds face.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
[b]To humans CO2 is harmless, to plants it's beneficial. Suggestion: refrain from this line of argument it makes you look like a dumbarse.

Speaking of dumbarses...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia 🙄

Will respond to the rest tomorrow, when sober.

D[/b]

Looking forward to it.🙄

😉

"Hypercapnia is generally caused by hypoventilation, lung disease, or diminished consciousness. It may also be caused by exposure to environments containing abnormally high concentrations of carbon dioxide (usually due to volcanic or geothermal causes), or by rebreathing exhaled carbon dioxide."

We should all stop breathing LOL, just as I thought about the green freaks....anti humanists.

Originally posted by xs
For much of Earth's history, the world has been ice-free (even at the poles) with iceless periods interrupted by glaciation periods (called glacial epochs). The retreat of ice during a glacial epoch is called an inter-glacial period and this is our PRESENT DAY CLIMATE system.

Check out the Earth's climate record.
http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/geolog ...[text shortened]... atic, I predict we have reached the apex and are in for a 100,000 year or so cooling trend. 🙂

Yes. But all previous climate shifts have taken place over centuries, giving plant and animal life time to migrate. We are causing a (large) climate shift measured in decades.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Looking forward to it.🙄

😉

"Hypercapnia is generally caused by hypoventilation, lung disease, or diminished consciousness. It may also be caused by exposure to environments containing abnormally high concentrations of carbon dioxide (usually due to volcanic or geothermal causes), or by rebreathing exhaled carbon dioxide."

We should all stop breathing LOL, just as I thought about the green freaks....anti humanists.

Yes. AT around 4% CO2. About 100 times it's current level - not a level which has occurred (naturally) in around 400 million years....

Originally posted by Wajoma
CO2 levels is a difficult one for the scare mongers to push because of the levels we are talking about.

CO2 makes up about .03% of the atmosphere. So if it goes from (as an example) .027% up to .03% the greenies start screeching "OMG OMG CO2 has gone up by 10%"...The other way of looking at it is that CO2 has gone up .003%.

To humans CO2 is harmless, t ...[text shortened]... spent flying petty bureauRats (probably in business class) around the world to discuss KP

Of course, increased CO2 can be beneficial to plants - and generally is, in the short term. Longer term studies actually show a repression in photosynthesis due to starch build up and insufficient sink strength. Plants may take up more CO2, but increased temperatures also increase respiration rate, especially of one of the planet's biggest sinks - soils. This, allong with associated drought is forecast to lead to soil deterioration and desertification. In the longer term, an increased planetary temperature would probably lead to increased CO2 emissions from natural sources. Just hope that we don't start to tip the ocean system, or you are talking huge amounts of de-gassing.

Sorry to bring some actual science to the debate folks....

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
They did it with genetically-modified food.

The EU? 😕

Originally posted by Wajoma
Looking forward to it.🙄

😉

"Hypercapnia is generally caused by hypoventilation, lung disease, or diminished consciousness. It may also be caused by exposure to environments containing abnormally high concentrations of carbon dioxide (usually due to volcanic or geothermal causes), or by rebreathing exhaled carbon dioxide."

We should all stop breathing LOL, just as I thought about the green freaks....anti humanists.

Keep digging my friend...

Wajoma: "To humans CO2 is harmless"

Rag's Link: 🙄 Hypercapnia (CO2 poisoning) is caused by exposure to environments containing abnormally high concentrations of carbon dioxide.

What you should have probably said is "To humans CO2 is harmless. But it could kill you." 😕

😉

D