29 Dec 14
Originally posted by quackquackThe question is whether the benefit of having access to slightly cheaper crap outweighs the benefit of having a higher employment rate and the benefits to our society that entails.
If we can produce things significantly cheaper elsewhere then we should benefit from cheaper goods. The replaced American worker is by definition overcompensated in the market and we should take advantage of the cheaper foreign alternative. To legislate otherwise is silly as we deny ourselves the benefits of cheaper products.
I'm not answering the question one way or the other (it's an enormously complex inquiry), but either decision can be rational, depending on the circumstances.
29 Dec 14
Originally posted by EladarIn the United States you are free to change employment. Employers need hard working productive people. If all you can negotiate is slave wages, perhaps you overestimate your own self worth or underestimate what is being provided.
I don't know about productive, but definitely not skilled.
I'd say there are a great many hard working productive people not getting paid what they should be getting paid. They are basically working for slave wages because they work for immoral people.
29 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76Jobs aren't outsourced to save pennies. There are transportation, re-training, marketing and publicity costs. There also is legal uncertainties in going to other countries and there is an inertia to keep the status quo. Most jobs are outsourced because the benefits are huge.
The question is whether the benefit of having access to slightly cheaper crap outweighs the benefit of having a higher employment rate and the benefits to our society that entails.
I'm not answering the question one way or the other (it's an enormously complex inquiry), but either decision can be rational, depending on the circumstances.
29 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackThen we can come up with a nuanced solution that discourages outsourcing in some areas but not in others.
Jobs aren't outsourced to save pennies. There are transportation, re-training, marketing and publicity costs. There also is legal uncertainties in going to other countries and there is an inertia to keep the status quo. Most jobs are outsourced because the benefits are huge.
My point is that there is no easy philosophical answer one way or the other.
29 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackYou can, but many people do not. Most Americans work from pay check to pay check and can't afford to quit a job to look for another.
In the United States you are free to change employment. Employers need hard working productive people. If all you can negotiate is slave wages, perhaps you overestimate your own self worth or underestimate what is being provided.
When you are working there isn't much time to find another job.
It's called real life.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by EladarIf you have a computer and use it for luxury purposes (like to post responses to an idiot like me), then real life for you isn't working from pay check to pay check at slave rates.
You can, but many people do not. Most Americans work from pay check to pay check and can't afford to quit a job to look for another.
When you are working there isn't much time to find another job.
It's called real life.
I'm not willing to adopt your exaggerated negative view of the corporate world to create xenophobic policies.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76I understand what you are saying, I just don't really see it as a problem. People are far more likely to think they unfairly lost their job or a potential job to a foreigner than acknowledge they demanded too high a wage, were underproductive, unskilled or unreliable.
Then we can come up with a nuanced solution that discourages outsourcing in some areas but not in others.
My point is that there is no easy philosophical answer one way or the other.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by EladarStop blaming the free markets for not paying you more than you can negotiate, your employer for working within the constraints of reality, and your parents fault for being the wrong status. At some point your lot in life is determined by your own actions.
The free market doesn't work when you are at the bottom working as little more than a slave.
It works pretty darn well if you are born into the upper economic end.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by quackquackIt isn't the free market's fault. I'm just saying that the free market does not guarantee that a better worker will get better pay.
Stop blaming the free markets for not paying you more than you can negotiate, your employer for working within the constraints of reality, and your parents fault for being the wrong status. At some point your lot in life is determined by your own actions.
You are making a huge incorrect assumption.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by EladarThere are no guarantees of anything but it seems to me that there is demand for quality workers and businesses will pay for what they need.
It isn't the free market's fault. I'm just saying that the free market does not guarantee that a better worker will get better pay.
You are making a huge incorrect assumption.
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by quackquackYou are the one who made the claim that if you are more productive you will automatically make more money due to capitalism.
There are no guarantees of anything but it seems to me that there is demand for quality workers and businesses will pay for what they need.