Originally posted by ivanhoeThe second article is by Tom Gross, who is an experienced Jerusalem correspondent, but it is merely opinion. It adds little here; if you share the opinion, just post something in your own words.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjVlMmRjNDllNzhkZmE1OWM3NmE1OGQ4OGQxMDA1YjQ
"The BBC World Service has a strong claim to be the number-one villain. It has come to sound like a virtual propaganda tool for Hezbollah. And as it desperately [b]attempts to prove that Israel is guilty of committing “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity,” it has i ...[text shortened]... ion of a few individual buildings in a manner which suggests half the city has been razed."
.[/b]
I've heard some criticism of the BBC. But then I heard as much, and probably more, about the behaviour of the Fox News "embeds" during the Iraq war. And of course all embeds had their material checked and censored by the commanding officers of their units. They also got some questionable information from Allied command.
Those who chose to go it alone got no favours. And sometimes ended up dodging bullets. From all corners.
If your point is that propoganda is a part of modern warfare, fine. It's not perfect for journalists, but it is true.
As long as you are looking at both sides with the same critical eye.
Originally posted by dottewellDottewell: "As long as you are looking at both sides with the same critical eye "
The second article is by Tom Gross, who is an experienced Jerusalem correspondent, but it is merely opinion. It adds little here; if you share the opinion, just post something in your own words.
I've heard some criticism of the BBC. But then I heard as much, and probably more, about the behaviour of the Fox News "embeds" during the Iraq war. And of cou ...[text shortened]... sts, but it is true.
As long as you are looking at both sides with the same critical eye.
If I should believe what is told about how the Arab media, in particular the state controlled media, are reporting this war and how they portray Israel, then I have no hope whatsoever that a balanced view, meaning offering the public a chance to look at things from both (or more !) sides, is being presented to the public.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou get to look at it from both sides. It's just that there is usually someone trying to control what you are looking at, and tell you what it means.
Dottewell: "As long as you are looking at both sides with the same critical eye "
If I should believe what is told about how the Arab media, in particular the state controlled media, are reporting this war and how they portray Israel, then I have no hope whatsoever that a balanced view, meaning offering the public a chance to look at things from both (or more !) sides, is being presented to the public.
It was the same during the Iraq war.
I have not been out there, and won't; but I recently spoke to a number of UK citizens evacuated from Lebanon. Most had no great sympathy for Hezbollah. Yet some of their stories were horrific.
Truth gets distorted in war, by all sides.
Originally posted by dottewellMy observations are that the media in the West (in particular the European and liberal US media) are very critical towards any information put forward by Israel and the US, but when it comes to the reports from Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria suddenly this attitude changes.
You get to look at it from both sides. It's just that there is usually someone trying to control what you are looking at, and tell you what it means.
It was the same during the Iraq war.
I have not been out there, and won't; but I recently spoke to a number of UK citizens evacuated from Lebanon. Most had no great sympathy for Hezbollah. Yet some of their stories were horrific.
Truth gets distorted in war, by all sides.
The reports in the Western press on how the Lebanese now support Hezbollah and stand behind them all the way is such an instance. You don't hear anything else these days. I'm convinced this is propaganda. It seems the parrot choir recrutes many of its members in media circles.
We'll know the truth when the dust of this war settles and things turn back to "normal".
Originally posted by ivanhoeAs someone living in England, I must say I find that strange; both the biggest-selling tabloid in the UK (the Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch), and the biggest-selling "broadsheets" (the Telegraph, the Times) are - to my knowledge - no great friends of Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria.
My observations are that the media in the West (in particular in European and liberal US media) are very critical towards any information put forward by Israel and the US, but when it comes to the reports from Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria suddenly this attitude changes.
The reports in the Western press on how the Lebanese now support Hezboll
We'll know the truth when the dust of this war settles and things turn back to "normal".
Indeed, the article you posted above from the NRO was by a former Telegraph correspondent.
As for the BBC, they tend to get accusations of bias from all sides. But if you look at their most controversial story of recent years - Andrew Gilligan's "sexed up" report re the "dossier" on Iraq - even that was substantially right.
Do you doubt that the Lebanese casualties of this war are greater than Israeli casualties by a factor of around 10?
Originally posted by dottewellGiven some of the info ivanhoe has shown in this thread,
As someone living in England, I must say I find that strange; both the biggest-selling tabloid in the UK (the Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch), and the biggest-selling "broadsheets" (the Telegraph, the Times) are - to my knowledge - no great friends of Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria.
Indeed, the article you posted above from the NRO was by a for ...[text shortened]... nese casualties of this war are greater than Israeli casualties by a factor of around 10?
I'd think one would have to be inclined to doubt any figures.
i.e. How many bodies have you counted?
Originally posted by dottewellA rather interesting criterion in determining whether a certain report is biased or not or meant to influence or even manipulate the public is investigating whether there is a strict separation between facts and opinions and how they are possibly being mixed together. The choosing of the wording of course is also such a criterion. There are a lot of criteria of course, but these are the two which I can produce at the moment.
As someone living in England, I must say I find that strange; both the biggest-selling tabloid in the UK (the Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch), and the biggest-selling "broadsheets" (the Telegraph, the Times) are - to my knowledge - no great friends of Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria.
Indeed, the article you posted above from the NRO was by a for nese casualties of this war are greater than Israeli casualties by a factor of around 10?
Studying the techniques which have been used by the top masters of propaganda in the past is absolutely necessary if one wants to distinguish between information and propaganda.
Nazi and East German Propaganda Guide Page
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
Originally posted by dottewellI have no reasons to doubt this information at the moment. I do however have doubts about how Hezbollah provides information to the media and, as we were able to witness, to the Lebanese government.
As someone living in England, I must say I find that strange; both the biggest-selling tabloid in the UK (the Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch), and the biggest-selling "broadsheets" (the Telegraph, the Times) are - to my knowledge - no great friends of Hezbollah, Hamas, Lebanon, Iran and Syria.
Indeed, the article you posted above from the NRO was by a for nese casualties of this war are greater than Israeli casualties by a factor of around 10?
Originally posted by ivanhoeEDITED - I did not see your second reply.
A rather interesting criterion in determining whether a certain report is biased or not or meant to influence or even manipulate the public is investigating whether there is a strict separation between facts and opinions and how they are possibly being mixed together. The choosing of the wording of course is also such a criterion. There are a lot of criteria ...[text shortened]... a.
Nazi and East German Propaganda Guide Page
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
Originally posted by ivanhoeIt is healthy to doubt information given out by all sides during a war. But in today's world there are also limits on how much information can be supressed. The Bush-Blair coalition was found out very quickly when they tried to spin a couple of incidents during the Iraq War; the Iraqi information minister was a standing joke; Hezbollah may be found out for similar distortions. But many basic facts are not questioned on any side; and it is actually reassuring that despite the best efforts of propagandists on all sides, the truth usually comes out in the end.
I have no reasons to doubt this information at the moment. I do however have doubts about how Hezbollah provides information to the media and, as we were able to witness, to the Lebanese government.
I do still worry, though, that your criticisms are rather one-sided. A casual reader of the forums might assume you just compared Hezbollah, the Lebanese Government, Iran, Syria, etc., to the propaganda machine of Nazi Germany, while applying no such criticism to the Israeli government. One of Hamas' many complaints - and perhaps one reason they are now prospering at the ballot box - is that they say the world and the media have for years ignore routine atrocities in the Gaza strip and West Bank, while reporting in detail on Intifada suicide attacks in Israel.
Let's apply critical judgement to all sides.
http://drinkingfromhome.blogspot.com/2006/08/extreme-makeover-beirut-edition.html
I'd like to see some evidence that this woman is the owner of both of the buildings in question, seeing as it's the same woman 'crying' in both places.
Amazing...the Hezbos aren't even trying to hide the fact that they keep using the same actors and actressess over and over again.
http://www.aina.org/news/20060808193908.htm
Hezbollah Uses Christian Villages As Shields in Missile Attacks
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Posted GMT 8-9-2006 0:39:8
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Washington (CNA) -- Recent reports indicate that Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its attacks against Israel.
According to Christian Solidarity International, Hezbollah is hiding among civilian populations, mostly in southern Lebanese towns, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab.
Launching attacks behind human shields is in violation of the Geneva Convention's provision for the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, which prohibits the use of civilians as military shields.
This is not a new strategy for Hezbollah. Col. Charbel Barka, a former South Lebanese Army commander, says Hezbollah is repeating what it did in attacks against Israel in 1996.
A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who requested to remain nameless for fear of a reprisal from Hezbollah, reported that he found Hezbollah fighters setting up a launcher on his rooftop. Hezbollah fighters ignored his pleas to stop and fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which was bombed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike.
Hezbollah has also attempted to stop Christians from fleeing their villages. According to Christian Solidarity International, on July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two.
Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union, adds that media reports about Christian support for Hezbollah are inaccurate.
"Contrary to Western press reports, indicating high percentages of Christian support for Hezbollah, 90 percent of Christians, 80 percent of Sunni and 40 percent of Shiites in Lebanon oppose Hezbollah," El-Khoury told Christian Solidarity International.
Christian Solidarity International has called for the United Nations to establish a politically independent commission to investigate Hezbollah's contravention of international law. The group has also urged the UN Security Council to deploy immediately an international force in Lebanon to facilitate a ceasefire, to stop the flow of arms from Syria to Hezbollah, and to assist the Lebanese government in fulfilling its obligation to disarm Hezbollah.
Hezbollah has been the ruling power in the south since Israel withdrew from Lebanon six years ago. Christian villages suffer from extensive neglect of infrastructure under Hezbollah rule. Once the majority, the Christian population in Lebanon has declined to under 40 percent due to pressures by Islamic militias supported by Iran and Syria.
This is what British author David Pryce-Jones wrote about the BBC reporting concerning the recent developments in the Mid East:
http://pryce-jones.nationalreview.com/
The anti-Israeli and anti-American stance of the entire BBC comes as a shock to me, brought up as I was to respect its objectivity. That was then, this is now. BBC editorialists are one and all clear that Bush and Blair and Israel are acting indefensibly. One of the most important talk shows had four guests, all of whom ranted uninterruptedly against Israel, so much so that a columnist in the London Times described the program as “the first to have been edited by the leader of Hezbollah.” BBC reporters have given up on news, preferring to editorialise in their turn, blaming the horrors of Lebanon exclusively on Israel. The appeasement of Hezbollah, and the concomitant Jew-hating, is evidence of moral collapse, and it is going to take the whole of Europe a long time to get out of it – if it ever can.
This really beats it all: The raising of the dead.
Take a good look at these photographs apparently published at the New York Times site ....... unbelievable !
http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=1238&titel=Nog_meer_leuke_plaatjes_uit_L %20ibanon
The text in Dutch says: "There is a problem though .... (Do you see the cap under his arm?)"
Hezbollah knows very well how to use the international media. Here are some examples:
Although many journalists reported that the Hezbollah is firing missiles from amidst civilian infrastructure, and also U.N. posts, not many of these reports got to the public.
On August 3rd CNN reporter to Beirut, Nick Robertson, said that his July 18 report was staged by Hezbollah's Media Officer.
Mrs. Emma Banino, the Italian minister in charge of connections to the EU said on July 31 that "it is clear that Hezbollah set up the post near civilians, in order to turn them into human shields."
Time reporter, Christopher Allbrieton said that "Hezbollah holds a copy of all the journalists' passports. They have already badgered a few of us."
Elizabeth Palmer of CBS said that "Hezbollah is determined to show only what he wants to be seen.
Tom Gross, a former reporter for the Sunday Telegraph wrote on August 3 that "foreign media has become a propaganda tool for Hezbollah."
On August 6 Reuters admitted that a photo published on the August 5, that showed heavy smoke billowing after a night air raid on a suburb of Beirut was modified with a computer program. Reuters apologized and called for that picture not to be used anymore. The photographer was suspended. Later, Reuters has announced it has withdrawn 900 photos by its Lebanese photo stringer. There are repeated acts of manipulating the images in order to produce photos that make Israel look worse.
German newspaper Die Welt stated that "Hezbollah had turned the Iranian Embassy into its headquarters. The Hezbollah moved there on July 15 after the attack on Beirut. Iran gave the Hezbollah a whole floor guarded by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards."
The German newspaper Tags Speigel of Berlin published a letter by a Shi'ite doctor from Lebanon that claims that the Hezbollah had set up weapon storage places under schools and apartment buildings. The Doctor added "that the Hezbollah used the populace as a human shield, and when they die it uses them for propaganda."
The German newspaper Die Sueddeutsche Zeitung said on August 2 that Hezbollah staged the media charade in Qana to maximize the Horror Effect. The headline was "hezbolliwood," as it was said that the Hezbollah brought bodies from other places to be photographed by the media.
These examples show that the Western media falls into Hezbollah's trap time after time. Precautions should be taken so that Western media will not serve as a propaganda tool for a terrorist organization and for the countries that support it like Iran, Sudan, North Korea, and others.