Originally posted by CribsHmmm. 'More likely' and 'less likely' aren't the only two options. Their sexual orientation may have no effect on the likelihood that an adopted child will be homosexual.
Yes. The only way the child would be less likely would be if
he was so disgusted by his parents that he made a concerted
effort to never be like them.
Originally posted by bbarrAre you of the belief that homosexuality is innate from birth,
Hmmm. 'More likely' and 'less likely' aren't the only two options. Their sexual orientation may have no effect on the likelihood that an adopted child will be homosexual.
or a learned behavior, or simply a rational choice?
In the first case, I would agree that parents have no influence.
In the second and third, parents are a strong influence on all
aspects of a child's development, so I would assert that they
have some effect.
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by Cribsi agrre with the good doctor on this one. if the child picked up on his parent activity early on in life, he might hardly know better. i could see it might be damaging developing strong homosexual tendencies at such an early age. you would not get the ridicule from the parents being gay, it would be the child him/herself.
Are you of the belief that homosexuality is innate from birth,
or a learned behavior, or simply a rational choice?
In the first case, I would agree that parents have no influence.
In the second and third, parents are a strong influence on all
aspects of a child's development, so I would assert that they
have some effect.
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by bbarr
Well, I'm sure that depends on where the child is raised. I would hope a homosexual couple wouldn't raise their child near Christians, for instance, lest their hatred and bigotry threaten the child (or worse, rub off on child). In much of the Pacific Northewest, however, I'm sure that a homosexual couple could raise a child relatively free of worry (though there are "bad neighborhoods", but these are easily identified by counting crosses on the skyline).
Bad day Bennet ?
Figured 😉
Originally posted by Ghanima AtreidesKids, are harsh, thats certainly true. Ya don't need two mons or dads to be bullied. Being too tall, too short, too hairy, not hairy enough, having a big nose, having a small nose, having no distinguising features at all are all gonna be picked on....it really does not matter, kids don't need the fuel, they'll always find something...
...but thing is it is very probable that the child will suffer later in his life, when he goes to school and gets ridiculed by the other kids about his "two moms" or "two dads" people have these preconceptions and especially children can be very harsh...
Originally posted by Simonm
Kids, are harsh, thats certainly true. Ya don't need two mons or dads to be bullied. Being too tall, too short, too hairy, not hairy enough, having a big nose, having a small nose, having no distinguising features at all are all gonna be picked on....it really does not matter, kids don't need the fuel, they'll always find something...
I think its tough enough to grow up without a parent (mother of father). They both play a great individual role in one's upbringing. When you hurt your knee and cry, you want your mother, when you want to play catch, you need your father.
Both are integral to one's upbringing. I've known people who have grown up without one of their parents and the effects are noticeable.
Originally posted by CribsThere is a genetic component to homosexuality, but that doesn't entail that homosexuality is innate. All it means is that one relevant causal force is innate. Most character traits (e.g., aggressiveness, introspectiveness, etc.) result from the complex interplay of genetic and environmental factors. In fact, even referring to genetic components and environmental factors is somewhat arbitrary, as you cannot specify an instance of either without that instance being causally impacted by some instance of the other. I do not think that homosexuality is chosen by the homosexual. No homosexual I have ever met has decided to be attracted to members of the same sex; rather, it occurred to them that they were so attracted at around puberty, and they retrospectively recognized prior behaviors as expressive of this attraction. In fact, homosexuals seem to become aware of their sexuality in a manner isomorphic to that by which heterosexuals become aware of their sexuality.
Are you of the belief that homosexuality is innate from birth,
or a learned behavior, or simply a rational choice?
In the first case, I would agree that parents have no influence.
In the second and third, parents are a strong influence on all
aspects of a child's development, so I would assert that they
have some effect.
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by pcaspianI was really only trying to cover the issue of bullying there...
Kids, are harsh, thats certainly true. Ya don't need two mons or dads to be bullied. Being too tall, too short, too hairy, not hairy enough, having a big nose, having a small nose, having no distinguising features at all are all gonna be ...[text shortened]... up without one of their parents and the effects are noticeable.
I would agree that an absent parent can cause great harm but I've not seen any evidence that 2 same-sex parents can't fill all the role models a kid needs.
Just based on what I think (like I said not seen much evidence) I don't think the child's upbringing would be harmed just because the parents are the same sex. Of course that does not preclude the possibility that same sex parents could do a very bad job and end up really messing a kid up, but I know plenty of hetrosexual parents who have messed there kids up too...
Originally posted by Cribs
Are you of the belief that homosexuality is innate from birth,
or a learned behavior, or simply a rational choice?
In the first case, I would agree that parents have no influence.
In the second and third, parents are a strong influence on all
aspects of a child's development, so I would assert that they
have some effect.
Dr. Cribs
Read Origin of the Species Cribs. Apparently the framework is still fundamentally sound, but sometimes I wonder.
Originally posted by bbarrIt seems that your model of homosexuality precludes
In fact, even referring to genetic components and environmental factors is somewhat arbitrary, as you cannot specify an instance of either without that instance being causally impacted by some instance of the other.
the possibility of usmc's question having any meaning,
because you seem to be stating that one cannot examine
an environmental factor and test or speculate about that
factor's influence on a personality trait.
My repsonse above was taking usmc's model as given.
That is, a home environment can have an influence
on a child's personality traits. And under that model,
I think it is clear that given an environment in which homosexuality
is not only acceptable but the norm, then the child
will be influenced toward rather than away from
homosexuality.
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by SimonmAgreed. So that brings me to my first conclusion, that a child raised by a homosexual couple would have a hard time...but also he or she would eventually learn to overcome it, like any of life's hardships.
Kids, are harsh, thats certainly true. Ya don't need two mons or dads to be bullied. Being too tall, too short, too hairy, not hairy enough, having a big nose, having a small nose, having no distinguising features at all are all gonna be picked on....it really does not matter, kids don't need the fuel, they'll always find something...
Originally posted by pcaspianI tried one time. It was way too dry for me, and above
Read Origin of the Species Cribs. Apparently the framework is still fundamentally sound, but sometimes I wonder.
my head due to my severe lack of knowledge of biology.
Did you read and understand it?
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by Simonm
I was really only trying to cover the issue of bullying there...
I would agree that an absent parent can cause great harm but I've not seen any evidence that 2 same-sex parents can't fill all the role models a kid needs.
Well yes, clearly having 2 gay parents would greatly increase bullying. I certainly do not envy a child who would go to my school having 2 gay parents, but the effects of bullying is not really a good reason to prevent someone from adopting a child. I think the benefits of good parenting substantially outweigh the effects of bullying. Whils't not underestimating the effects bullying can have on a person, I do feel a greater amount of personal growth is lost from the absense of one parent, than from bullying.
Provided the parents raise the child in an sexually neutral environment, I would even go as far as to say that gay parenting would have a greater benefit than single parenting.
Originally posted by Cribs
I tried one time. It was way too dry for me, and above
my head due to my severe lack of knowledge of biology.
Did you read and understand it?
Dr. Cribs
I cant recall having to use alot of biology to understand it, but then I did read it a very long time ago.
I tend to read quite a few articles regarding evolutionary theory however. Last year that was a theory on homosexuality and Darwinism published in the New Scientist, but don't think it was too well received.
I'm sure there is an idiots guide to evolution somewhere. Always the best place to start.
cheers
Originally posted by CribsThis depends on any number of other factors. For instance, is sexual orientation established in utero? Is sexual orientation established in part by physiological factors that are independent of a parent's sexual orientation? Is sexual orientation established in part by psychological characteristics of the parents that have nothing to do with sexuality? Is there any evidence whatever that allows us to take a position on any of these questions? If not, then the most we can say, in our ignorance, is that it is possible that the sexual orientation of adopters may influence the sexual orientation of adopted children. But so what? We already knew it was possible.
It seems that your model of homosexuality precludes
the possibility of usmc's question having any meaning,
because you seem to be stating that one cannot examine
an environmental factor and test or speculate about that
factor's influence on a personality trait.
My repsonse above was taking usmc's model as given.
That is, a home environment can have ...[text shortened]... m, then the child
will be influenced toward rather than away from
homosexuality.
Dr. Cribs