how heavy is your carbon footprint ?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I got here by plane, of course. And???? Am I to be punished for taking one single air journey? It's not like I do it every day. Not like people who jump into their hummer and drive down to the supermarket.

how many decades would it take a kalahari bushman to equal that one plane trip, with his lifestyle?

Originally posted by zeeblebot
how many decades would it take a kalahari bushman to equal that one plane trip, with his lifestyle?

Probably less than you'd think. But then again, I'm not a Kalahari bushman.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
looking forward to the days when villagers never stray more than a few miles from their hometowns ...

If the local environment is rich enough, there's no need to go a-wandering. JG Ballard is an example of someone who has seduced worlds into a semi-detached house. Kafka also managed the same trick.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Probably less than you'd think. But then again, I'm not a Kalahari bushman.

Quite so. Like the rest of us, you're a lot less useful as an individual (the impact of your death on society would be practically insignificant compared to the loss of an experienced adult in a hunter-gatherer group) and require a great many more resources simply to stay alive.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Quite so. Like the rest of us, you're a lot less useful as an individual (the impact of your death on society would be practically insignificant compared to the loss of an experienced adult in a hunter-gatherer group) and require a great many more resources simply to stay alive.

Ahhh, relative worth. Well, I happen to think my death would be a whole lot more important to me than to a Kalahari bushman, or his death to me. Do you think Darwin's life, or Stephen Hawkins' life, or the life of Nelson Mandela, or the life of anyone else is worth more or less than that of a Kalahari bushman?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Ahhh, relative worth. Well, I happen to think my death would be a whole lot more important to [b]me than to a Kalahari bushman, or his death to me. Do you think Darwin's life, or Stephen Hawkins' life, or the life of Nelson Mandela, or the life of anyone else is worth more or less than that of a Kalahari bushman?[/b]

You'd need to assess the impact of their abrupt withdrawal from society. Darwin's already dead, of course. (If he'd died on board the Beagle, chances are that someone else would have developed evolutionary theory instead, in which case his individual death would have been insignificant. That's the advantage of having a society of millions rather than a tiny clan.)

How could your death be important to you if you were dead?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I got here by plane, of course. And???? Am I to be punished for taking one single air journey? It's not like I do it every day. Not like people who jump into their hummer and drive down to the supermarket.

...or Gore flying around pumping up his film, book, etc.

Originally posted by Wajoma
...or Gore flying around pumping up his film, book, etc.

Depends on the net carbon balance achieved by the actions. Let's say he managed to convince the US senate to bring in mandatory emission levels for new vehicles, reducing the amount of CO2 released into the environment by millions of tonnes per annum, then it'd be worthwhile.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You'd need to assess the impact of their abrupt withdrawal from society. Darwin's already dead, of course. (If he'd died on board the Beagle, chances are that someone else would have developed evolutionary theory instead, in which case his individual death would have been insignificant. That's the advantage of having a society of millions rather than a tiny clan.)

How could your death be important to you if you were dead?

Ah, so you've no idea of what either I, or the Kalahari bushman, may do in the future or even in the near present (for example, I have a current paper in submission which explains the physiological basis of differential yield in cereals, which has widespread implications for cereal breeding, crop yields, management etc) and cannot, therefore, assess who's death may have more profound implications for everyone else.

Of course, you are correct, when dead I cannot care about my death, but I can certainly care about it between now and then, when I have an ability to do something about it!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Depends on the net carbon balance achieved by the actions. Let's say he managed to convince the US senate to bring in mandatory emission levels for new vehicles, reducing the amount of CO2 released into the environment by millions of tonnes per annum, then it'd be worthwhile.

He should ride a bicycle.

Edit: He sure better ride economy eh....anyone know?

Also, how many flights should a person be 'allowed' in their lifetime. You've had one to NZ, and hopefully a oneway off again. Should all 6 000 000 000 people be allowed at least 2 flights with out being 'punished'. Where did this number come from? who decides?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Ah, so you've no idea of what either I, or the Kalahari bushman, may do in the future or even in the near present (for example, I have a current paper in submission which explains the physiological basis of differential yield in cereals, which has widespread implications for cereal breeding, crop yields, management etc) and cannot, therefore, assess who's death may have more profound implications for everyone else.

It's your paper that's important, not your individual self. If you keel over tomorrow, you'll be replaced soon enough. The Bushman, however, can't be replaced so easily, since new ones take so long to grow.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's your paper that's important, not your individual self. If you keel over tomorrow, you'll be replaced soon enough. The Bushman, however, can't be replaced so easily, since new ones take so long to grow.

What about the other 8 in preparation? Why is the bushman so important? No-one is irreplaceable, no one can be swapped out for just anyone else... Bushmen may be rare, but not as rare as I am. There's only one me.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's your paper that's important, not your individual self. If you keel over tomorrow, you'll be replaced soon enough. The Bushman, however, can't be replaced so easily, since new ones take so long to grow.

no need to wait; scott's probably got doppelgangers on several continents.

Originally posted by Wajoma
He should ride a bicycle.

Edit: He sure better ride economy eh....anyone know?

Also, how many flights should a person be 'allowed' in their lifetime. You've had one to NZ, and hopefully a oneway off again. Should all 6 000 000 000 people be allowed at least 2 flights with out being 'punished'. Where did this number come from? who decides?

I don't think it comes down to number - I think it comes down to need.

Originally posted by Wajoma
He should ride a bicycle.

Edit: He sure better ride economy eh....anyone know?

Also, how many flights should a person be 'allowed' in their lifetime. You've had one to NZ, and hopefully a oneway off again. Should all 6 000 000 000 people be allowed at least 2 flights with out being 'punished'. Where did this number come from? who decides?

i doubt he rides economy, and in any event, he's also got the entourage to account for. all those secret service agents ...