Debates
15 Dec 07
17 Dec 07
Originally posted by flyUnityCan I ask a non provocative question, and that is how old are the planes you fly/flew. I myself am not a pilot but a student of aero engineering, so my perspective of what's possible is not informed by first hand experience but by knowledge of the most recent advances in flight control systems.
hmm, every jet I ever flew, we NEVER let it auto land, in fact I would be scared to death if it did.
17 Dec 07
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Originally posted by kmax87Most of the planes I fly are made in the 70's, the newest I ever flown was small twin pistons 2005, the newest jet I ever flown was a citation made in 85, The Turboprop (20 seat-er) Im training now is also made in the 70's, and has no auto pilot or GPS 😞,
Can I ask a non provocative question, and that is how old are the planes you fly/flew. I myself am not a pilot but a student of aero engineering, so my perspective of what's possible is not informed by first hand experience but by knowledge of the most recent advances in flight control systems.
yea the new Boeing's and airbus's can do CAT 3 approaches, however the majority (99% ) of the planes dont
I just flew a 1964 plane the other day, and it flies just as good as the newer ones, if not better, Age dont really mean much on airplanes except the fancier gadgets...
17 Dec 07
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I was looking for something a bit more involved, with numbers/statistics/etc., but here's an interesting bit of fluff on age and it's affect on reaction time to distractions and unexpected emergencies on car drivers. Now imagine an airline pilot.
http://journalofvision.org/2/7/632/
18 Dec 07
Originally posted by flyUnityI am flying a PA-28 235 made in 1963 and it is the newest plane I have ever flown.
Most of the planes I fly are made in the 70's, the newest I ever flown was small twin pistons 2005, the newest jet I ever flown was a citation made in 85, The Turboprop (20 seat-er) Im training now is also made in the 70's, and has no auto pilot or GPS 😞,
yea the new Boeing's and airbus's can do CAT 3 approaches, however the majority (99% ) of the plan ...[text shortened]... er ones, if not better, Age dont really mean much on airplanes except the fancier gadgets...
I learned to fly in 90 horse Interstates and a 70 hp J3 that were all made in the late 1930's and early 1940's.
I have flown a PA21... but not officially. I used to "borrow" it from time to time when the owner was out of town. Ahem...
I have piloted an L39 from the back seat from getting it's nav package upgraded in Illinois back to Idaho. Made landings in Yankton and Shadron for fuel... Cost about $1500 bucks for fuel that day. And that was back when jet A was a buck fifty a gallon. Yuck.
Fun plane to fly. But ALL planes are fun to fly.
20 Dec 07
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Originally posted by Sam The ShamI can only go on the abstract and I am not sure how the conclusion has been reached. What was the median age of the test subjects classified as older?
I was looking for something a bit more involved, with numbers/statistics/etc., but here's an interesting bit of fluff on age and it's affect on reaction time to distractions and unexpected emergencies on car drivers. Now imagine an airline pilot.
http://journalofvision.org/2/7/632/
How much of these oder test subjects have ever had any experience with simulator type games.
To what extent does a cockpit and a flight plan present the same type of stochastic situations as car driving, and hence require the same sorts pf reaction times for flying?
Considering that we are predominantly talking about commercial flying in passenger jets, where most events are not that time sensitive, how relevant is it to have the reaction time of a car driver?
20 Dec 07
Originally posted by StarValleyWyi think as long as you can get it up.............
Do you trust the new ruling that airline pilots are now going to be allowed to work until age 65, reverting the policy to what it was twenty years ago?
I think that it should not be just a set date, but based on passing the approval of first officer and flight crew. If a pilot gets written up by say -- six -- flight crew members, he or she should be ...[text shortened]... think you are better or worse as you get older? I am a better pilot now than I was at seventeen.
20 Dec 07
Originally posted by kmax87wouldn't you be worried about worst case more than "most events"?
I can only go on the abstract and I am not sure how the conclusion has been reached. What was the median age of the test subjects classified as older?
How much of these oder test subjects have ever had any experience with simulator type games.
To what extent does a cockpit and a flight plan present the same type of stochastic situations as car driving, ...[text shortened]... vents are not that time sensitive, how relevant is it to have the reaction time of a car driver?
20 Dec 07
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Originally posted by zeeblebotI'm not sure looking at worst cases is relevant. If any age group were only subjected to worse case scenarios what would be the result anyway?
wouldn't you be worried about worst case more than "most events"?
The reflexes that might pass simulator worse case events may not equate to the experience required to ride out storms and situations that require judgment and patience. If for the most part life in a cockpit is mundane and if large plane accidents are rare, it might suggest that when things go wrong either nothing much can be done anyway, or the over reaction could be just as at fault than a possibility of any under reaction due to the possibility of reduced reflexes with age.
20 Dec 07
Originally posted by StarValleyWyMy grandfather was a corporate pilot (small jets under 20 passengers) until he was forced to retire at 70 (about 2 years ago). He claims that he could keep on doing it. Granted he is a stubborn old bastard, but he's in damn good shape for seventy. It sounds to me like it's mostly a liability issue. But I agree that judgements should be made on a case by case basis involving performance testing.
Do you trust the new ruling that airline pilots are now going to be allowed to work until age 65, reverting the policy to what it was twenty years ago?
I think that it should not be just a set date, but based on passing the approval of first officer and flight crew. If a pilot gets written up by say -- six -- flight crew members, he or she should be ...[text shortened]... think you are better or worse as you get older? I am a better pilot now than I was at seventeen.
21 Dec 07
Originally posted by kmax87they throw all those situations at you in simulators ... you'd think that for something like passenger transport pilots they could combine simulator results, medical records, and maybe some more specific medical tests into a metric much better than "65 years and you're out" ... maybe some people should be retired at 50 ...
I'm not sure looking at worst cases is relevant. If any age group were only subjected to worse case scenarios what would be the result anyway?
The reflexes that might pass simulator worse case events may not equate to the experience required to ride out storms and situations that require judgment and patience. If for the most part life in a cockpit is mun ...[text shortened]... t than a possibility of any under reaction due to the possibility of reduced reflexes with age.