Debates
01 Jan 13
01 Jan 13
Originally posted by sasquatch672Stand at ease Sgt.
I don't know that this OP is going to engender a great deal of discussion, but anyway...
I miss the life. I do. I miss it alot. Money's fine, house, car...there's nothing like the brotherhood.
To us and those like us. Damn few left.
You put in your time. You ain't got nothing to be ashamed of.
Service done and be proud.
In my experience, doing various jobs it's all about friendship
brotherhood and connections made. If you have made good
connections, then that's all good.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
01 Jan 13
Originally posted by sasquatch672Some of the best posts draw little comment but deserve much approval. Thank you for your service.
I don't know that this OP is going to engender a great deal of discussion, but anyway...
I miss the life. I do. I miss it alot. Money's fine, house, car...there's nothing like the brotherhood.
To us and those like us. Damn few left.
02 Jan 13
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyThanks Johnny. I appreciate it. Best wishes for the coming year.
Stand at ease Sgt.
You put in your time. You ain't got nothing to be ashamed of.
Service done and be proud.
In my experience, doing various jobs it's all about friendship
brotherhood and connections made. If you have made good
connections, then that's all good.
02 Jan 13
Originally posted by sasquatch672You could always join the Montana militia...😀
I don't know that this OP is going to engender a great deal of discussion, but anyway...
I miss the life. I do. I miss it alot. Money's fine, house, car...there's nothing like the brotherhood.
To us and those like us. Damn few left.
03 Jan 13
The post that was quoted here has been removedI didn't say the society was perfect. I'm well aware of the challenges my sisters-in-arms have faced and do face. they have earned my enduring respect. Nor did I claim that everyone's experience was positive. I myself have said more than once, "I'm glad I went in, and I'm glad I got out".
What I am saying is that I've never again found bonds of that strength. Even with my wife, she abhors guns and does not understand my affection for my former profession. How could she? She never did it.
By and large, you know what you're getting. You're getting a common set of beliefs, a common ethos, a reinforcing support system that nonetheless expects you to perform. Out here, it's every man for himself. It's different.
I think one of the biggest things wrong with our society is that so little is expected of us. That should change. I do believe you should be required to contribute. Two years' compulsory service. Doesn't have to be military. AmeriCorps. Peace Corps. Something.
03 Jan 13
Originally posted by sasquatch672What is the difference between that and the common set of beliefs, common ethos, and reinforcing support system of, say, the Waffen SS? Not to make light of your service, but I think those kind of bonds tend to be endemic of hierarchical, authoritarian groups, like the military (of any country). Groups which stress pluralism or egalitarianism, by definition, do not forge those type of bonds. It seems to me that the pursuit for that type of tight kinship necessarily pushes one toward a certain ideological disposition that embraces hierarchy, inequality, the idea of servitude, etc. Taken to its extreme, it becomes an implicit yearning for fascism.
I didn't say the society was perfect. I'm well aware of the challenges my sisters-in-arms have faced and do face. they have earned my enduring respect. Nor did I claim that everyone's experience was positive. I myself have said more than once, "I'm glad I went in, and I'm glad I got out".
What I am saying is that I've never again found bonds of ...[text shortened]... sory service. Doesn't have to be military. AmeriCorps. Peace Corps. Something.
03 Jan 13
Originally posted by rwingettWut?
, the idea of servitude, etc. Taken to its extreme, it becomes an implicit yearning for fascism.
I find that the opposite is true. There is no reason to have a police state with a moral civil society. None. However, an immoral society demands tyrrany.
03 Jan 13
Originally posted by rwingettI admit that there's a hell of a lot of trust built into the system - a lot of trust in your superiors that they're ordering you to do the right thing. And more than one soldier has had their trust betrayed. But to be honest with you, the lack of ambiguity in your mission, the way you understand what you're supposed to be doing, being part of a team that has high cohesion, high morale, and high confidence it's those things. Probably every soldier believes that what they're doing is right; no one wants to regard themselves as evil. But it's not good vs. evil on a daily basis. In all honesty, it's about your brothers.
What is the difference between that and the common set of beliefs, common ethos, and reinforcing support system of, say, the Waffen SS? Not to make light of your service, but I think those kind of bonds tend to be endemic of hierarchical, authoritarian groups, like the military (of any country). Groups which stress pluralism or egalitarianism, by definition ...[text shortened]... , the idea of servitude, etc. Taken to its extreme, it becomes an implicit yearning for fascism.
03 Jan 13
Originally posted by sasquatch672The way things are now I think it would be hard to know you are doing "good". I can understand defending your own country and home but to go out and tinker with regime change and nation rebuilding is a grotesque use of power. Then when ambassadors start being murdered and regimes turning into Isamic fundamentalist monsters for your trouble you start to question the sanity of it all.
I admit that there's a hell of a lot of trust built into the system - a lot of trust in your superiors that they're ordering you to do the right thing. And more than one soldier has had their trust betrayed. But to be honest with you, the lack of ambiguity in your mission, the way you understand what you're supposed to be doing, being part of a team t ...[text shortened]... But it's not good vs. evil on a daily basis. In all honesty, it's about your brothers.
03 Jan 13
Originally posted by whodeyWhat you define as a "moral civil society" can only be achieved through some degree of tyranny. The tight bonds and common purpose that sasquatch describes do not spring up of their own accord. They are imposed by authoritarian figures in hierarchical groupings. A free and pluralistic society will tend toward looser social cohesion, or what you would call "an immoral society." Needless to say, though, I disagree with your usage of "moral" and "immoral."
Wut?
I find that the opposite is true. There is no reason to have a police state with a moral civil society. None. However, an immoral society demands tyrrany.
03 Jan 13
It used to be the church hierarchies which imposed a common bond and purpose upon society. With the lessening of church influence in modern society, that yearning for a paternal, authoritarian father figure has been replaced to some extent by the various military units across the world. They have replaced the church in providing its members with a "purpose", "identity" and sense of belonging.