03 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by BadwaterReally? Why was U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 called the USA Patriot Act? Are we seriously to believe that it was merely a matter of it being the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001?
Not to me. The right to protest is quite American.
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03 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFThe Patriot Act is the most despicable piece of Anti-American excrement ever put to words. Further, Americans seem to be too stupid to recognize the value of the rights they have(had), and take them for granted; otherwise, they would not discard them so quickly and treat them so shabbily.
Really? Why was U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 called the USA Patriot Act? Are we seriously to believe that it was merely a matter of it being the [b]Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001?[/b]
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. - Benjamin Franklin
03 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by BadwaterBut doesn't saying this make you an "anti-American" in the eyes of many patriotic Americans? Why did virtually no U.S. political leaders denounce U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56?
The Patriot Act is the most despicable piece of Anti-American excrement ever put to words.
And if U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 is, on one hand, "anti-American", and there are vast swathes of the American population who think you are an "anti-American American", what on earth could the term "anti-American" actually mean?
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03 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFPlease refer to both my posts, above. 🙂
But doesn't saying this make you an "anti-American" in the eyes of many patriotic Americans? Why did virtually no U.S. political leaders denounce U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56?
And if U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 is, on one hand, "anti-American", and there are vast swathes of the American population who think you are an "anti-American American", what on earth could the term "anti-American" actually mean?
03 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by BadwaterYes. Unfortunately they don't really answer my question.
Please refer to both my posts, above.
The right to protest is quite American.
Does that mean choosing not to protest might be considered "anti-American"?
Americans seem to be too stupid to recognize the value of the rights they have(had), and take them for granted
You offer a characterization of "Americans". Does this mean that deviating from this characterization might be considered "anti-American"?
For Americans to cast aside this ignorance you speak of and recognize the value of the rights would leave them open to accusations of being "anti-American"?
Virtual unanimous support from the American establishment for U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 was patriotic or unpatriotic?
If so many Americans can be unAmerican - millions upon millions, or so it would seem - what could "unAmerican" possibly mean?
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03 Feb 09
Does that mean choosing not to protest might be considered "anti-American"?
I differentiate between a choice and a right.
You offer a characterization of "Americans". Does this mean that deviating from this characterization might be considered "anti-American"?
No, I offered a characterization of the Patriot Act.
Virtual unanimous support from the American establishment for U.S.Public Law Pub.L. 107-56 was patriotic or unpatriotic?
Neither. Stupidity exists on both sides.
...what could "unAmerican" possibly mean?
Only what those in power would choose for it to mean in order that your personal rights or power be trampled upon. Preferably in a permanent way.
03 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by BadwaterI was referring to your "Americans seem to be too stupid to recognize the value of the rights they have(had), and take them for granted", which is a broad characterization of what Americans are, while at the same time touching upon the impact of the Patriot Act.
No, I offered a characterization of the Patriot Act.
Presumably the thoughts and deeds of Americans constitute "Americanism".
So "Americanism" is, in part, a state of being too stupid to recognize the value of rights?
Originally posted by Badwater
Only [...] those in power would choose for ["unAmerican"] to mean [too stupid to recognize the value of rights] in order that your personal rights or power be trampled upon. Preferably in a permanent way.
But it seems to me to be a one way thing. Protestors, dissenters, ideological non-conformists of various ilks, on what we can rather dodgily refer to as 'the left', appear to be branded as "unAmerican" or "anti-American" continuously and with great gusto. But I rarely hear, say, Democrats - when they become "those in power" denounce people like, say, those here http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index as "unAmerican" or "anti-American". Does this suggest that one side of the aisle has made these insults their own to brandish?
When Jim Jeffords left the Republican Party to become an independent and caucus with the Democrats in 2001, many Republicans denounced him as "unAmerican". But when Joe Leiberman made his own similar dash for political independence a few years later, Democrats called him many things, but "unAmerican" wasn't one of them.
05 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFIf we are unable to distinguish between criticism of certain aspects of American policy and a blatant anti-patriotism, we are heading down a road never traversed by more ethical governments. To call someone pointing out flaws in a countries system "unpatriotic" or "anti-American" is, in the words of Al Franken (about the only time I would quote him) "itself unpatriotic".
[b]Springsteen regrets record deal
Rock star Bruce Springsteen has said it was a "mistake" to exclusively release an album with US retail giant Wal-Mart.
The musician told the New York Times: "Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one."
Some fans complained about the deal, saying claims made against Wal-Mart's labour practices ...[text shortened]... once and for all, how it works and what "anti-American" actually means?[/b][/b]
05 Feb 09
Originally posted by scherzoIt would appear that Franken owes $70,000 in back taxes. How patriotic is that?
If we are unable to distinguish between criticism of certain aspects of American policy and a blatant anti-patriotism, we are heading down a road never traversed by more ethical governments. To call someone pointing out flaws in a countries system "unpatriotic" or "anti-American" is, in the words of Al Franken (about the only time I would quote him) "itself unpatriotic".
GRANNY.
06 Feb 09
More evidence for the prosecution?
You cannot get a more quintessentially "American" entity than Ticketmaster, surely?
What about these rumours that Springsteen was born in Kenya?
Ticket 'abuse' angers Springsteen
Rock singer Bruce Springsteen has hit out at a company which encouraged US fans to buy tickets online for one of his concerts at inflated prices.
The musician condemned Ticketmaster for redirecting fans to another website selling more expensive tickets. Writing on this website, Springsteen said he had asked the company to "immediately" stop the practice. Ticketmaster said it has removed all links and has pledged to refund fans their additional costs for tickets.
The rest of the story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/entertainment/7872905.stm
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFBy this statement he shows his true anti - American colours. He's for price controls and bureaucratic oversight that would stifle the agency and free action of market forces to accurately determine the true price of goods in the marketplace.
The musician condemned Ticketmaster for redirecting fans to another website selling more expensive tickets. Writing on this website, Springsteen said he had asked the company to "immediately" stop the practice. Ticketmaster said it has removed all links and has pledged to refund fans their additional costs for tickets.
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by kmax87And i thought smearing peanut butter on his bung hole during his draft physical was bad.
By this statement he shows his true anti - American colours. He's for price controls and bureaucratic oversight that would stifle the agency and free action of market forces to accurately determine the true price of goods in the marketplace.
GRANNY.