Debates
25 Jan 06
27 Jan 06
2 edits
I don't think you've understood the Unabomber at all. He had less time for the American Left (he notably expressed the desire to kill a hippy) than anyone bar the machine-gunners who used to "disperse" poverty-stricken miners in the early twentieth century, unless you're referring to the feelers he sent out to Earth-Firsters - which were all fake: he was on record as saying he couldn't give a rat's ass about the rain forests, global warming or the ozone layer - the only thing he cared about was the use of technology and psychops in the aid of state centralization, neither of which are particularly left-wing themes, I would suggest.
You're quite right to say that he's "looked up to" by Earth-Firsters, but then they don't understand him any more than you do.
27 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by AmauroteI think I read it at least as carefully as you. I see his manifesto as a plea to lefties to join him and a declaration of war against the "non left" who don't join him.
I don't think you've understood the Unabomber at all. He had less time for the American Left (he notably expressed the desire to kill a hippy) than anyone bar the machine-gunners who used to "disperse" poverty-stricken miners in the early twentieth century, unless you're referring to the feelers he sent out to Earth-Firsters - which were all fake: he was on d up to" by Earth-Firsters, but then they don't understand him any more than you do.
http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm
But then we are dealing with a deranged psychopath. That is why I thought you might be referring to him as being on the right. I think that it is a stretch to say that Earth Firster's could or would admire a "right winger". Don't you see that as a stretch? And you admit that they admire him.
Not?
So... Why would you try to put one of your own crazies onto the right?
Kind of dumb if you ask me. The problem with you lefties is you think you can say anything you want to say and the rest of us won't notice you are clueless.
27 Jan 06
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI'm not just talking about his manifesto, which only appeared seventeen years into his bombing campaign, I'm talking about his entire life. If you want to understand him, you have to see Kaczynski in context, because he himself admitted that he had the will to murder long before he began to mesh it into a nexus of political justifications. I recommend Alston Chase's Harvard and the Unabomber if you really want to delve into the subject. It's crystal-clear that he falls under the political taxonomy of conservative libertarian, which is why most of them were so silent when he finally (and literally) exploded on the scene. Philosophically he was also a logical positivist, and he had very little in common with the kind of fuzzy thinking you would associate with an Earth-Firster.
I think I read it at least as carefully as you. I see his manifesto as a plea to lefties to join him and a declaration of war against the "non left" who don't join him.
http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm
. I think that it is a stretch to say that Earth Firster's could or would admire a "right winger". Don't you see that as a stretch? And you admit that they do admit that they admire him.
And of course he made a "plea" - but those pleas were deceitful because he had no time at all for the Earth-Firsters. He wanted to amplify the murder campaign. That is all.
As for admiring him, sure, why not? There are some admirable qualities in Ted Kaczynski. He was intelligent and self-reliant, and he helped out at his local library. Just like the rest of your right-wing lunatics who shoot surgeons and think Gandhi's dictum that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind is some kind of gag.
PS:
"But then we are dealing with a deranged psychopath. That is why I thought you might be referring to him as being on the right."
Yes. I absolutely agree with you that this seems to logically follow.😏
27 Jan 06
Originally posted by AmauroteIf you can't persuade us with logic then try to baffle with your bs.
I'm not just talking about his manifesto, which only appeared seventeen years into his bombing campaign, I'm talking about his entire life. If you want to understand him, you have to see Kaczynski in context, because he himself admitted that he had the will to murder long before he began to mesh it into a nexus of political justifications. I recommend Alsto ...[text shortened]... the right."
Yes. I absolutely agree with you that this seems to logically follow.😏
You settled our argument with -- "As for admiring him, sure, why not?"
Nobody from the right would ever believe it or say it.
You done hung yourself with your admiration.
And your summary is just typical leftie lying. What I said was
"But then we are dealing with a deranged psychopath. That is why I thought you might be referring to him as being on the right."
Not "that this seems to logically follow."
Far from it. It proves that you really are not comfortable when one of your own ACTUALLY does what you all dream of doing
But then you lefties make a living by cheating, never acting and blaming others.
28 Jan 06
2 edits
Originally posted by StarValleyWyWhen you've finished tripping over your nonsequiturs, you might consider for a moment that the adult Kaczynski not only professed his dislike of leftists (notably at Berkeley) and Utopians on many occasions, he never participated in marches, demonstrations, strikes or indeed any other "left-wing" activity, not once - despite the fact that he was at his prime during the way-out, dude sixties. In fact, on the rare occasions he was out of his tweeds, he spent most of his time blowing people up in the name of unfettered individualism.
Nobody from the right would ever believe it or say it.
You done hung yourself with your admiration.
And your summary is just typical leftie lying. What I said was
"But then we are dealing with a deranged psychopath. That is why I thought you might be referring to him as being on the right."
Not "that this seems to logically follow."
...[text shortened]... of doing
But then you lefties make a living by cheating, never acting and blaming others.
Meanwhile, I'd like to end with a direct quote which sounds almost like a pastiche of an SVW post, but is in fact from Kaczynski's diary:
"I emphasize that my motivation is personal revenge. I don't pretend to any kind of philosophical or moralistic justification. The concept of morality is simply one of the psychological tools by which society controls people's behaviour. My ambition is to kill a scientist, big businessman, government official, or the like. I would also like to kill a Communist."
(Chase, p. 342)
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by AmauroteHe was a commie in his youth. Not? And they failed him. That is why he wanted to kill one. At least that is the case according to his brother who turned him in.
When you've finished tripping over your nonsequiturs, you might consider for a moment that the adult Kaczynski not only professed his dislike of leftists (notably at Berkeley) and Utopians on many occasions, he never participated in marches, demonstrations, strikes or indeed any other "left-wing" activity, not once - despite the fact that he was at his prim ...[text shortened]... fficial, or the like.[b] I would also like to kill a Communist."
(Chase, p. 342)[/b]
You have a hard row to hoe. But keep trying to put him on the right. Then read all the left wing apologies for him in the left wing newspapers. They are as confused as you are.
I will go so far as to say that the reason you brought him up here in this thread is that you subconsciously do associate him with the "left" and that you just can't stand facing up to that.
Think about it. On your next visit to your analist (pronounced "aye nal ist"😉 you might try to work through your guilt issues on this. Can't hurt.
Meanwhile, you have said nothing to "put the unibomber on the right" that will convince anyone who knows anything. It is universally recognized that he is "brilliant but wrong" by the left.
The right has always just called him a crazy environmental nut!
And I live on the right so I am quite confident of this. If you want, we can go into the New York Times op ed pages and start reading all the apologies written on his behalf. Do you want to do that?
28 Jan 06
4 edits
. Not? And they failed him. That is why he wanted to kill one. At least that is the case according to his brother who turned him in.Originally posted by StarValleyWy
You have a hard row to hoe. But keep trying to put him on the right. Then read all the left wing apologies for him in the left wing newspapers. They are as confused as you are.
I will go so far as to say that the reason you brought him up here in this thread is ges and start reading all the apologies written on his behalf. Do you want to do that?[/b]
He was a commie in his youth
Nope, wrong again, in fact he spent his youth at Harvard and Berkeley expressing his overt hatred of them. If you want to cite any of this self-confessed leftist hater's supposed "left-wing" beliefs, I'm all ears. While you're at it, let's hear about Timothy McVeigh's love of communism, since he was someone whom Kaczynski got along like a federal building on fire on the rare occasions they met.
I think it quite comical that you associate admiration for someone's personal qualities with political affiliation: by the same token, Tony Benn was a Thatcherite and Mick Jagger was a member of the Baader-Meinhof group. Face facts, you have nowhere to put a trade union-hating, libertarian, anti-technological cultural primitivist than the Right. You can place him on the Left on the basis of the most superficial criteria in the same way you can put a square peg in a round hole if you hit it hard enough, but you're not deluding anyone other than yourself, because we have his words on record.
Originally posted by Positional Player
Does it matter what the political orientation of a murderer is?
Stop trying to shove him into one camp or the other to make them look bad....
Since I've already explicitly said that it doesn't and even quoted Kaczynski to that effect, I fail to see your point.
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by sasquatch672I totally agree that pro-life Christians are failed abortions.
I'm going to have to censor this post because of the new forum posting rules. For any unseemly verbosities, I apologize in advance.
There was recently a pro-life march in San Francisco that numbered 15,000 participants. Along the parade route, "pro-choice" - I don't know what you would call these people - protesters held a counter-rally. These pe ...[text shortened]... een-year-old with 36B's and a trust fund. Been nice knowing you.
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by shavixmirThat's describing me shav, and I don't appreciate it, because I have contributed positively to this society, by helping homelessness, given $$ to charities, and even defending my country. If you hate pro-life people so much, that sounds like a psychological malfunction on your part. Now, if you want to channel your dislike for pro-lifers (or anti-abortionists), choose those that bomb abortion clinics, physically prevent women from entering abortion clinics, judge and castigate post-abortive women. Yes, I'm against abortion, but I will not stop someone making a conscience decision from having one. As I've stated in past posts, I don't judge them, nor will I condemn them. I will treat them with dignity and respect. God will have the last say. Cheers from a "failed abortion"......thank goodness the abortionist was too drunk to perform the procedure...LOL
I totally agree that pro-life Christians are failed abortions.