jehovah witnesses

Originally posted by agryson
Yeah I'm pretty sure that suicide is illegal.

Actually not in the UK, but only since pretty recently (1961). I think it said it had been legal in Ireland since only 1993.

In the US, the few states that had statutes never bothered to enforce it.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I stand corrected.

Seemingly, here in Holland, if an adult male doesn't want a blood transfusion, the doctor's can't give him one.

I'm divided on this issue. On the one hand, sure if someone wants to bleed to death... so be it. On the other hand, how indoctrinated do you have to be that if all you need is a blood transfusion to live a healthy life, you'd be willing to sacrifise yourself?

Maybe it's a case of someone who's child or mother got AIDS from a blood transfusion. That happened for a while until they learned how to keep the supply pure.

If you have a chance to live without the transfusion, and know that one can get AIDS from the transfusion...

Originally posted by eatmybishop
the woman who - while giving birth to twins - needed a blood transfusion in order to survive... her husband and parents refused on the grounds they were jehovah witnesses...doctors had to respect their wishes and this woman died...

eatmybishop:
Since there is no link to this story...let me ask this. You said the "husband & parents refused." However, while interesting, this begs the critical question. Did the woman refuse? Do you have this info?

Originally posted by agryson
Yeah I'm pretty sure that suicide is illegal.

No, it's considered a mental illness, not a crime. People who try to commit suicide are not arrested if they fail. Helping someone commit suicide is a crime, just ask Dr. Kevorkian.

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
No, it's considered a mental illness, not a crime. People who try to commit suicide are not arrested if they fail. Helping someone commit suicide is a crime, just ask Dr. Kevorkian.

Although you may not be arrested in the traditional sense, here in Australia at least you may find yourself scheduled under a section of the mental health act and put into an asylum against your will until such time that you have chilled.

Originally posted by MacSwain
eatmybishop:
Since there is no link to this story...let me ask this. You said the "husband & parents refused." However, while interesting, this begs the critical question. Did the woman refuse? Do you have this info?

Here is a news report on the incident:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm

Seems like the mother didn't specifically refuse as she wasn't capable of doing so, although it is claimed that she would share the views of the rest of the family being Jehovah's Witnesses.

How are the rest of the family to know that she wasn't to change her mind about her views once her life is on the line?

We all might casually have opinions about something, like what our wishes would be in a critical situation. Too often when faced with that situation, we decide otherwise.

Hence I don't believe it is other people's right to decide her fate. What would she have done if her life had been saved against her wishes? Would she then decide to commit suicide because she believes she shouldn't have been alive?

Originally posted by lausey
Here is a news report on the incident:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm

Seems like the mother didn't specifically refuse as she wasn't capable of doing so, although it is claimed that she would share the views of the rest of the family being Jehovah's Witnesses.

How are the rest of the family to know that she wasn't to change ...[text shortened]... uld she then decide to commit suicide because she believes she shouldn't have been alive?

"I don't believe it is other people's right to decide her fate."

I'm not in agreement with the Jehovas witnesses on this, but in fairness, if she is not able to answer herself, then next of kin is the only way to go, otherwise the doctor will be deciding her fate even though he is a complete stranger. In the case of children, cool, assume life is the option, but for an adult, you really have to assume the family knows more than you about the patients wishes. Unfortunately for some I'm sure.

Originally posted by agryson
"I don't believe it is other people's right to decide her fate."

I'm not in agreement with the Jehovas witnesses on this, but in fairness, if she is not able to answer herself, then next of kin is the only way to go, otherwise the doctor will be deciding her fate even though he is a complete stranger. In the case of children, cool, assume life is the opti ...[text shortened]... the family knows more than you about the patients wishes. Unfortunately for some I'm sure.

Ok, you got me there about the doctor deciding fate. 😉 In reality though, the family do not know any more than the doctor about what her true wishes will be if she was able to answer for herself in the situation.

If her life was saved, she could have lived a full and happy healthy life and not deprived her son and daughter of a mother. Of course, it is my personal opinion, which will naturally be quite different if I was Jehovah's Witness. To me, it is a senseless death.

Note: This is quite a different issue if the person couldn't have made a full recovery. If I was on a life support machine as a vegetable, with no chance of recovery, I would rather not be kept alive.

Originally posted by kmax87
Although you may not be arrested in the traditional sense, here in Australia at least you may find yourself scheduled under a section of the mental health act and put into an asylum against your will until such time that you have chilled.

As it should be

Originally posted by lausey
Ok, you got me there about the doctor deciding fate. 😉 In reality though, the family do not know any more than the doctor about what her true wishes will be if she was able to answer for herself in the situation.

If her life was saved, she could have lived a full and happy healthy life and not deprived her son and daughter of a mother. Of course, ...[text shortened]... support machine as a vegetable, with no chance of recovery, I would rather not be kept alive.

I agree that this is a senseless death, but it does come under the wing of a DNR order. If I make a DNR order, if I lose consciousness it will still be carried out, even if my next of kin may disagree, even if I at the last second have second thoughts but can't communicate them, which is why such decisions are not to be taken lightly. If I am a practicing Jehovas witness, it is not the doctors prerogative to decide for me whether that counts or not.
No matter what the reason, if I choose to deny a procedure, that is my right. If I am unable to voice my decision, it really is the choice of the next of kin, because while they are both staring at a very real schrodingers cat situation and are both equally informed as to the patients current wishes, the next of kin are much more informed as to past wishes and the patients general philosophy to death. The doctor has to take second place.
It's a damn shame that life gets wasted like that, but it's their life to waste.