Joe the Plumber

Originally posted by no1marauder
...BTW, I am a business.

Yeah, the fertilizer bizness.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
That's exactly what Obama said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPBxiVxVEw


Here's what Joe the plumber had to say about their meeting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVM7ODUBn8

You do understand the difference between:
- That's not what Obama is saying;
- That's not what Obama said.

I was commenting on your remark where you imagine what Obama was saying (your last paragraph), not where you quoted him.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Someone who doesn't understand the tax system like Joe does probably shouldn't buy a business. He seems to think that you could be made worse off by taxes then you are now if you make more money. But that's absurd; the tax rates are marginal i.e. income at the lower levels is taxed at the same rate no matter what your total income is. Assuming that the b ...[text shortened]... p the difference. That's a little too responsible for our right wing nuts to understand.

it's called socialism and income redistribution. Obama even agreed with Joe that his taxes would increase saying he needed to "spead the wealth". That phrase is pure socialism.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
That's exactly what Obama said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPBxiVxVEw


Here's what Joe the plumber had to say about their meeting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVM7ODUBn8

DSR: In fact, he will keep coming back and take all the money you earn working overtime on Saturday


You too don't understand that the tax system relies on marginal rates. It would take a lot of Saturdays for the average worker to get from the median salary to $250,000 and if they did, they'd pay 3% more only on the amount over $250,000. So your posts are hysterical raving and/or deliberate lies.

EDIT: Median household income in the US in 2007 was $50,233 http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income_20080826. How many Saturdays does it take for someone to increase their income 5 fold, DSR?

Originally posted by no1marauder
DSR: In fact, he will keep coming back and take [b]all the money you earn working overtime on Saturday


You too don't understand that the tax system relies on marginal rates. It would take a lot of Saturdays for the average worker to get from the median salary to $250,000 and if they did, they'd pay 3% more only on the amount over $250,000. So your posts are hysterical raving and/or deliberate lies.[/b]

and under mccain no one gets higher taxes.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
it's called socialism and income redistribution. Obama even agreed with Joe that his taxes would increase saying he needed to "spead the wealth". That phrase is pure socialism.

You people are complete economic numskulls. Socialism doesn't have anything to do with income distribution per se; it has to do with whether the State owns the means of production.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
and under mccain no one gets higher taxes.

Nor do people at the average income get as big of a tax break. And, of course, the deficit balloons as it has done under Bush.

McCain properly at one point condemned Bush's tax cuts for precisely that reason but now has cravenly reversed himself.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You people are complete economic numskulls. Socialism doesn't have anything to do with income distribution per se; it has to do with whether the State owns the means of production.

That's not all they believe, be honest. They don't beleive in capitalism but rather the creation of an egalitarian society where income is distributed evenly. Thus, take from the better off and REDISTRIBUTE it to the rest. That's not capitalism.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Nor do people at the average income get as big of a tax break. And, of course, the deficit balloons as it has done under Bush.

McCain properly at one point condemned Bush's tax cuts for precisely that reason but now has cravenly reversed himself.

is Mccain proposing cutting taxes?????? The solution to a recession is not raising taxes as Obama will---on more than 5% of us.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
Joe the plumber is the guy who pulled the moderate mask off of Barrack Obama and exposed him for the socialist he is.


From National Review:

...Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio plumber who wants to buy a business but knows it’s going to hurt him, tax-wise, if Barack Obama becomes president.

To his concerns, Obama told Joe: “It’s not that I w ...[text shortened]... are you driving an energy-efficient car; are your tires inflated properly, etc., etc. etc.

Give me a break.

This is how US politics work.

The Democrats get in power, determine how much spending is necessary and tax the nation accordingly in order to pay for the spending.

The Republicans then get in power, cut taxes, BUT DON"T REDUCE SPENDING! Inevitably, the US runs a massive budget deficit and adds a few more Trillion to the national debt putting an even higher financial burden on future generations.

Then the Democrats get re-elected and have to fix it. You can go right back to Reagan and watch this pattern repeat itselft over and over.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
That's not all they believe, be honest. They don't beleive in capitalism but rather the creation of an egalitarian society where income is distributed evenly. Thus, take from the better off and REDISTRIBUTE it to the rest. That's not capitalism.

No, genius, socialists don't believe in capitalism. However, many people who believe in capitalism also believe that the last 25 years of radical reduction in rich folk's income taxes has had significant negative effects on our capitalist economy.

The idea that a 3% increase in marginal tax rates for the highest income bracket is "socialism" is bizarre and a bit insane.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
it's called socialism and income redistribution. Obama even agreed with Joe that his taxes would increase saying he needed to "spead the wealth". That phrase is pure socialism.

You know what I found really weird about Obama peddling his vision for America with Joe the plumber? He kept telling Joe to imagine what it was like 10 years earlier when he was just coming up and didn't have the money to buy the business. This fits in with the liberal mantra that if you're poor now, you're always going to be poor, and the only way to overcome poverty is for the government to redistribute wealth. There's two things wrong with this picture: Joe the plumber proves that if you work hard, you don't have to be poor; the other is that now that Joe the plumber is about to become an owner of a business, he doesn't want Obama the socialist taking away his dream (much less the wealth he accumulated through hard work and certain lifestyle choices). This ought to be a wake-up call for anyone who works for a living and/or aspires to own their own business.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
is Mccain proposing cutting taxes?????? The solution to a recession is not raising taxes as Obama will---on more than 5% of us.

Since lower income people spend more of their income, a shift in taxes raised from lower income people to higher income people will result in more spending. That's an expansionary fiscal policy which is the proper response to a recession. The massive cutting of taxes for the wealthy certainly didn't avoid an economic downturn, did it? With retail sales plunging, some cash in the pockets of those who would spend it would be a good idea.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
You know what I found really weird about Obama peddling his vision for America with Joe the plumber? He kept telling Joe to imagine what it was like 10 years earlier when he was just coming up and didn't have the money to buy the business. This fits in with the liberal mantra that if you're poor now, you're always going to be poor, and the only w ...[text shortened]... a wake-up call for anyone who works for a living and/or aspires to own their own business.

A better "wake up call" would be for them to talk to an accountant if they don't understand that making more money is still favorable even if there is a slight increase in marginal tax rates.

Originally posted by no1marauder
No, genius, socialists don't believe in capitalism. However, many people who believe in capitalism also believe that the last 25 years of radical reduction in rich folk's income taxes has had significant negative effects on our capitalist economy.

The idea that a 3% increase in marginal tax rates for the highest income bracket is "socialism" is bizarre and a bit insane.

I doubt Joe considers himself someone belonging in the highest tax bracket---it's just that his business will put him there. You're also leaving out the pharse "spread the wealth" which is an unfiltered (accidental) remark that shows where Obama's beliefs lie--that those with a business/money need to give to those that don't. Also, if you believe that Obama is going to pay for all the spending he proposes by just raising taxes on 5% of us you are crazy.