22 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidNonsense, if one wanted totalitarian government Trump has done everything he can to pave the way for it. His defense in the impeachment trial was basically that executive power should be unchecked, and he has fired the head of the FBI and multiple inspector generals in the interest of self-preservation, as well as forcing out the Attorney General and Chief of Staff who didn't properly enable his corruption. There is no analogous Obama situation. He has made end runs around due process and actively tried to limit free speech when it suits his purposes.
I think it is more a response to the left's strong desire for totalitarian government
and Trump put up a road block.
Remember, when Trump was elected we just got off of 8 years of Obama. Ok,
Ok, so we share, right? Not the Democrats! They started hating Trump long
before he was sworn in.
Untrasensitive people that feel they are entitled to perpetual power in America
But conservatives don't actually care about big government or limiting peoples rights, they just want it to be done on their terms. In the thread on Portland one guy actually says he doesn't care about legal niceties when it comes to detaining American citizens.
22 Jul 20
@petewxyz I think there is certainly a discontent with politicians in general for a lot of people.
Yes, but people may not be so tempted to start a centrist party when both parties
allow for centrists because they are already being pushed into polarized positions.
And I am very sure that if said centrist party started to form, antifa and BLM
would label them "extreme racists" to keep people from considering said party.
That is how those groups, and the left in general operates. Intimidation.
22 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidThere is already a centrist party, it's the Democrats, and conservatives label them "radical leftists"
@petewxyz I think there is certainly a discontent with politicians in general for a lot of people.
Yes, but people may not be so tempted to start a centrist party when both parties
allow for centrists because they are already being pushed into polarized positions.
And I am very sure that if said centrist party started to form, antifa and BLM
would label ...[text shortened]... m considering said party.
That is how those groups, and the left in general operates. Intimidation.
22 Jul 20
And Centrism can lead to pretty terrible policies too. Your typical centrist thinks things like "Well, I agree with liberals that the government should help poor people and the elderly via social security, medicare and food stamps but I also agree with conservatives that taxes are bad" so you end up cutting taxes but not spending and running larger and larger deficits.
Not to mention nonsensical positions like abortion only in the case of rape or incest, which basically says "I think abortion is murder of an innocent child but if a woman is raped she should be allowed to murder said child."
22 Jul 20
@kingme saidThat quote came out of my reply to @kevcvs57 about his description of U.K. political parties and politicians so possibly not relevant to your side of the Atlantic.
There is already a centrist party, it's the Democrats, and conservatives label them "radical leftists"
In my first post in this thread I did comment on centre politics in general, maybe that one crosses the Atlantic better?
22 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidNot putting words in your mouth earl just pointing out the reaction and constant coup attempt of the birther movement and the Tea Party created as a reaction to losing to Obama which was clearly a nod to the right wingers in America feeling they were threatened by a internal enemy.
@kevcvs57Your having a laugh ‘Tea Party’ ‘Birther Movement’ the reaction was to a perfectly sane and adequate POTUS and was based on racial panic.
This does not make grammatical sense to me, kev. Sorry.
[quote]But you expect the rabble rousing idiot that’s in the White House now to get a pass on everything he does or you cry coup and left wing con ...[text shortened]... ied about Trump remaining in power if he loses?
I suggest you are a conspiracy theorist. Good luck.
Your trying to portray the present day opposition to Trump from the left as some kind insurrection. Proof if needed that it’s the right who have rejected democracy and everyday politics in favour of rabid divisionism.
22 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidI actually thought it might happen at one point during breakdown of parliamentary party politics during the May and early Johnson governments. There was a half hearted rebellion in both parties and centrists from both parties trying to form a third way but tribalism and Brexit ultimately won the day.
Call me insanely optimistic, but maybe if things get even more divided a realistic centre party gets created with mass defection of the more credible politicians from both sides of the divide. Maybe that is pie in the sky, but the major parties are beginning to get so extreme that they could destroy their credibility completely in the eyes of the silent majority?? I think there is certainly a discontent with politicians in general for a lot of people.
22 Jul 20
1 edit
Not putting words in your mouth earl just pointing out the reaction and constant coup attempt of the birther movement and the Tea Party created as a reaction to losing to Obama which was clearly a nod to the right wingers in America feeling they were threatened by a internal enemy.
Hasn't got a fooking thing to do with me or my Libertarian Party. If you feel the
need to argue that badly, try "arguments" - three doors down on the left and right.
Your trying to portray the present day opposition to Trump from the left as some kind insurrection. Proof if needed that it’s the right who have rejected democracy and everyday politics in favour of rabid divisionism.
LOL, so laughable. The right is not rejecting democracy. Far from it.
Please, Kev. your rantings are without warrant and without a target.
Duchess64 had this habit of creating windmills to slay, too
22 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps said"The right is not rejecting democracy. Far from it. "
@kevcvs57Not putting words in your mouth earl just pointing out the reaction and constant coup attempt of the birther movement and the Tea Party created as a reaction to losing to Obama which was clearly a nod to the right wingers in America feeling they were threatened by a internal enemy.
Hasn't got a fooking thing to do with me or my Libertarian Pa ...[text shortened]... e without warrant and without a target.
Duchess64 had this habit of creating windmills to slay, too
Voter id laws. Suppressing votes. Shutting down voting sites, especially in communities less likely to vote for them. Supporting the electoral college. Obscene gerrymandering.
Seems it's not that far from rejecting democracy after all.
22 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidMaybe if you stop blowing smoke and ducking and diving every time your pulled up for your hyperbolic claims concerning lefties and Marxists trying to overthrow democracy and starting race wars there wouldn’t be an argument earl.
@kevcvs57Not putting words in your mouth earl just pointing out the reaction and constant coup attempt of the birther movement and the Tea Party created as a reaction to losing to Obama which was clearly a nod to the right wingers in America feeling they were threatened by a internal enemy.
Hasn't got a fooking thing to do with me or my Libertarian Pa ...[text shortened]... e without warrant and without a target.
Duchess64 had this habit of creating windmills to slay, too
What libertarian party are you talking about surely not Trumps Republican poodle party.
22 Jul 20
1 edit
Maybe if you stop blowing smoke and ducking and diving every time your pulled up for your hyperbolic claims concerning lefties and Marxists trying to overthrow democracy and starting race wars there wouldn’t be an argument earl.
I'm not the one doing the arguing, Kev. If you wish to debate something, do so
but you have been all over the wall in here and never hitting the nail on the head
What libertarian party are you talking about surely not Trumps Republican poodle party.
Kev, when you return to normal let me know.
EDIT to add:
Kev, I find a bit curious you know about the Tea Party from long ago, but don't
know about the Libertarian Party, which is on the ballot in all 50 states.
Phoney Baloney
22 Jul 20
@ponderable saidRight are still into laissez faire
Just to kick off: the denotion of left and right comes from the original French praliament. Positions there are probably not reflected in any contemporary setting, or are they?