Legalized prostitution

Originally posted by kmax87
You don't own your rights any more than you own yourself. These are things that can be conferred to you if the body that you are a part of decides its in its best interests for you as an individual to have them. The problem with only focussing on old King George is that over time people have allowed their own government to have similar control over their person, but their stubborn belief that they are still 'free' neatly saves them from the truth.

So you don't have a right to life unless some other people allow you to live?

Originally posted by whodey
Then why outlaw anything? After all, laws are made to be broken otherwise why have them at all?

Stay focused. Your argument was that the welfare state does not eliminate all prostitution. I showed how that was a stupid argument, because no known legal treatment of prostitution has been able to do so.

Do you have another argument?

Originally posted by Kencorp
I am for it. Simply to make it safer

I am for it, so long as they only allow it on your block.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
I am for it, so long as they only allow it on your block.

If you own your block then you should be able to set the terms and conditions for it's use.

Originally posted by Wajoma
So you don't have a right to life unless some other people allow you to live?

Pretty much sums up the lot of anyone who lived through and survived ww1 ww2 the Korean war the Vietnam war, the 6 day war, the interfada, the sectarian violence of northern Ireland, the Bosnian conflict operation desert storm/shield Iraq war and a whole other host of conflicts that I'm sure you can Google.

Originally posted by Palynka
Stay focused. Your argument was that the welfare state does not eliminate all prostitution. I showed how that was a stupid argument, because no known legal treatment of prostitution has been able to do so.

Do you have another argument?

So you are saying that sense the entire world is not one big social welfare state that this is what is responsible for what we see today regarding the "evils" of prostitution? I don't know how I can argue that position simply because the world is not like that as of yet.

As far as other arguments, of course I do have them. In fact, how would you feel if your mother or sister were prostituting themselves?

I think we both know what risks there are concerning prostitution. You can speak about protective measures all day long about how it can be made safer, however, there is no way to make is "safe". In fact, the last time I checked AIDS was one of the worlds biggest epidemics but all you hear about are people wanting to legalize prostitution. Therefore, to simply turn a blind eye towards the implications of spreading STD's is your call, however, as a society we must call a spade a spade.

Originally posted by whodey
So you are saying that sense the entire world is not one big social welfare state that this is what is responsible for what we see today regarding the "evils" of prostitution? I don't know how I can argue that position simply because the world is not like that as of yet.

As far as other arguments, of course I do have them. In fact, how would you feel if ...[text shortened]... tions of spreading STD's is your call, however, as a society we must call a spade a spade.

If my mother or sister were prostitutes, I would prefer if they weren't treated as criminals on top of it.

Outlawing it has never made it "safe". Why do you ask that of legalization? The debate is on whether it is "safer" or not. Same thing regarding AIDS, where the debate is whether the spread is more or less common, not whether it exists or not. We know the answer to that one.

Originally posted by Wajoma
If you own your block then you should be able to set the terms and conditions for it's use.

Property rights is a whole other issue. Can I assume that you would not want to live in a place where there are prostitutes?

Originally posted by Palynka
If my mother or sister were prostitutes, I would prefer if they weren't treated as criminals on top of it.

Outlawing it has never made it "safe". Why do you ask that of legalization? The debate is on whether it is "safer" or not. Same thing regarding AIDS, where the debate is whether the spread is more or less common, not whether it exists or not. We know the answer to that one.

I guess it is the same argument as with illegal drugs. Who am I hurting when I do these things? If the answer is only yourself, then have at it, in fact, we will make it safer by providing clean needles etc. However, if it is hurting other people, then it should be outlawed. The question then becomes is society being harmed with drug abuse and prostitution? If the answer is yes, then perhaps it is not just a personal choice, rather, it is a personal choice that is negatively impacting society as a whole no matter how "safe" we make it for them to do these things. So I suppose your argument hinges upon your view that the negative impact of prostitution and/or drugs upon society is not enough to outlaw such behavior?

Originally posted by whodey
I guess it is the same argument as with illegal drugs. Who am I hurting when I do these things? If the answer is only yourself, then have at it, in fact, we will make it safer by providing clean needles etc. However, if it is hurting other people, then it should be outlawed. The question then becomes is society being harmed with drug abuse and prostitutio ...[text shortened]... gative impact of prostitution and/or drugs upon society is not enough to outlaw such behavior?

I don't understand what you mean by "society is harmed". Do you mean people? Who is harmed?

The only people who might be harmed are the prostitutes. I don't see how treating them as criminals helps them.

Originally posted by Palynka
I don't understand what you mean by "society is harmed". Do you mean people? Who is harmed?

The only people who might be harmed are the prostitutes. I don't see how treating them as criminals helps them.

Let me put it another way. I asked you if you would mind if either your mother or sister became a prostitute. You responded that if they were, you would hope that at least they would not be treated as criminals. I translate that into you saying that on a personal level you would not like it, but would only hope that they could be as happy as possible considering their personal choices even though you do no agree with them.

Conversely, if your mother or sister decided to be mass murderers and I asked the same question more than likely you would say to lock them in jail and throw away the key. This is because their evil impacts society to such a negative degree that the welfare of society far outweighs that of their own personal welfare. Having said that, if a prostitute passes on a deadly STD, is it not harming society? Of course, this type of harm is not viewed in the same light as someone who is purposefully harming someone, but the same result has occurred.

Originally posted by whodey
Let me put it another way. I asked you if you would mind if either your mother or sister became a prostitute. You responded that if they were, you would hope that at least they would not be treated as criminals. I translate that into you saying that on a personal level you would not like it, but would only hope that they could be as happy as possible consi ...[text shortened]... the same light as someone who is purposefully harming someone, but the same result has occurred.

But that's the difference. I want the mass murderer to be in jail because he hurt other people.

Nowhere is it legal to pass deadly STD's. In the Netherlands, prostitutes have a HIV/AIDS prevalence of 7%. In Italy, where prostitution is outlawed, it is above 30%.

Originally posted by Palynka
But that's the difference. I want the mass murderer to be in jail because he hurt other people.

Nowhere is it legal to pass deadly STD's. In the Netherlands, prostitutes have a HIV/AIDS prevalence of 7%. In Italy, where prostitution is outlawed, it is above 30%.

Ok, so you have shown with these statistics that legalized prostitution is "safer". However, my question is does legalizing it encourage more to dabble in it even though it is "safer" for those that do? In other words, you may have just the same number of people infected, or even more people infected, simply because you have a larger percentage of people engaging in it.

Originally posted by whodey
Ok, so you have shown with these statistics that legalized prostitution is "safer". However, my question is does legalizing it encourage more to dabble in it even though it is "safer" for those that do? In other words, you may have just the same number of people infected, or even more people infected, simply because you have a larger percentage of people engaging in it.

I don't have the numbers for that, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

For example, with legalization comes the possibility for regulation. Regular medical checks, for example, become a possibility. This may help those engaging in it to be informed where the risk is lower.

Originally posted by Palynka
I don't have the numbers for that, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

For example, with legalization comes the possibility for regulation. Regular medical checks, for example, become a possibility. This may help those engaging in it to be informed where the risk is lower.

My main concern is the promotion of the practice. For example, does having it legalized promote greater numbers of prostitutes? In addition, does it promote greater numbers of individuals hiring prostitutes? In addition, does legalizing it create a far more laissez faire attitude toward sexual promiscuity? In addition, does legalized prostitution contribute to the erosion of the family unit in general? I am not sure how one could run statistics about such questions but I view them of great concern.