Originally posted by WajomaNo I had to, because the forum blocked my post due to obscenity!!!
Howie, you're the one re-writing, I saw your original post and your edit was to remove 'facist' try to be honest.
Although I suspect this may have been becasue I also originally used the term "Bush-ite" (without the hyphen).
It obviously referred to the word contained within "Bush-ite" which describes what continually comes out of De-Blank-Thinkers' mouth.
For the moment, let's hypothetically assume that European Muslim minorities are not going to be at least partially assimilated. This is in itself a curious assumption, since many immigrants of Muslim or other creeds already have been. When you read statistics stating that at least 8% of the French population is "Muslim", this is going to include people like Zinedine Zidane, simply because he's of Arab descent, despite the fact that he's secularised and culturally French. But just for the moment, let's forget about that and imagine that European Muslims are a monolithic bloc and that all of them are hostile to Europe's secular and tolerant outlook. I want to repeat that I don't believe this to be true in the first place. But even if it were...
1) Long-term demographic prediction is always dangerous. Twenty-five years ago it looked like birth rates were declining very rapidly in Northern and Western Europe. The birth rate in Sweden, Norway and France has since risen (and NO, before you ask, it's not because of a high fertility rate among immigrant minorities; the birth rate has increased across the board). If the French birth rate continues to rebound, it will soon be above replacement level again.
2) Many of the countries which have the lowest birth rates in Europe are those in which the non-European immigrant population is very small. Countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania (the latter two have a large Russian minority, of course). Countries in Southern Europe like Portugal and Greece. Even if the total population in these countries falls, then it's hardly going to lead to an immigrant, let alone a Muslim, majority in our lifetimes or indeed for centuries. Recent immigration has made Spain an exception to this - a country with a very low birth rate and a relatively high level of immigration - and Italy is an exception too, but even in these countries it would seem that the birth rate has recently begun to rise slightly again after years of decline.
3) The fertility rate in many Muslim countries is below replacement rate: Tunisia, Lebanon, Iran, Turkey, even Algeria. The trend is downward worldwide. There's no reason to suppose that Muslim minorities in Europe are not going to experience declining fertility rates too.
4) As an example of that having already happened elsewhere, Israel has for years been beset by worries about demographics because its sizeable Arab minority had a higher birth rate than the Jewish majority. In the sixties it was predicted that Arabs would be in the majority by the millenium. Today, Arabs still constitute less than 20 percent of the population of Israel proper (excluding the Occupied Territories, of course). Also, the birth rate of Muslim Arabs in Israel has been falling for years; the birth rate of Jews has been rising; and it looks like they're about to converge around 3 children per Israeli woman. The Arab Christian birth rate in Israel, incidentally, is lower than either Muslim or Jewish rates, and somewhat below replacement rate.
In sum, all this demographic paranoia may be misplaced. In any case, as I said at the beginning, what about assimilation? European governments should be aiming to ensure that modern secular European values - freedom, tolerance, human rights, and so on - are promoted in our schools, to students of all backgrounds and persuasions.
Originally posted by Sam The ShamIf we take this to a European perspective immigrants are reproducing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
Same thing's happening in europe
like rabbits, right? And Europeans are more relaxed in this sense? Great!
We even each other out, and things will work out. There's the solution
for you too. Stop making babies and let the immigrants in, and you
won't have that sharp spike in people's growth.
The problem is not really about how many immigrants one nation
accepts each year. The problem is that people copulate for the wrong
reason too damn much. I say, every man in the whole damn world must
agree to be castrated after he's had exactly one child. Problem solved!
China got it wrong. They think a son is more important than a daughter
and don't have any sense to be absolutely thrilled about having a little
girl. Whatever the gender of your one child, be happy, be castrated, and
enjoy life from a more relaxed perspective. Peace! 😏
Originally posted by Jigtie"China" didn't think the son was more importsnt. Chinese people did. They disagreed with the government to the extent that they were willing to murder their baby girls. You cannot control the people all the way from the top. You can only have so much influence.
If we take this to a European perspective immigrants are reproducing
like rabbits, right? And Europeans are more relaxed in this sense? Great!
We even each other out, and things will work out. There's the solution
for you too. Stop making babies and let the immigrants in, and you
won't have that sharp spike in people's growth.
The problem is not re ...[text shortened]... child, be happy, be castrated, and
enjoy life from a more relaxed perspective. Peace! 😏
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWith the unfortunate Chinese example, compare that in Iran, which as I mentioned in my previous post now has a fertility rate below replacement levels. This was achieved through a family planning policy involving no legal limit on the number of babies, but a lot of education. Iran is the only country in the world where both men and women have to attend family planning classes before marrying! Contraception is freely available, albeit to married couples only.
You cannot control the people all the way from the top. You can only have so much influence.
In the eighties, when the birth rate was very high, it was forecast that the Iranian population would now be over 100 million. Instead, it's around 70 million. I don't approve of much the post-Revolutionary Iranian government has done, but encouraging people only to have children when they really want them has to be a good thing on balance.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI stand corrected. I still think we should force all males to castration after
"China" didn't think the son was more importsnt. Chinese people did. They disagreed with the government to the extent that they were willing to murder their baby girls. You cannot control the people all the way from the top. You can only have so much influence.
their first child.
And I for one, won't have that child until I'm eighty something! 😏
Originally posted by mohoNo. But they're all over the world, aren't they? Misquoting papers and
Do you have many in Sweden?
twisting facts to suite their anti-muslim propaganda? Just read the link
below and have a real good laugh, 'cause it is most laughable.*
Especially if you know Swedish and can actually translate the articles they
link to. Then you'll see that they translate just a little to freely:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2004/09/003131print.html
Oh! You mean muslims? Right. I'm not sure, but they're certainly not
taking over our country if that's what you mean. When the police say
they have a hard time controlling some situations that just happens to
involve immigrants, the instigating fools I talk about above try to make
it seem like muslims are taking over and that Sweden is about to fall
because of it's open policy towards immigrants. It's a bad, bad thing to
give people who's survived wars and persecution a haven, and it's
absolutely incredible that these people aren't all of a sudden deliriously
happy and very, very grateful towards us. It's definitely inconceivable
teenagers have a hard time adapting to an entirely different
environment than they're used to. And of course, all the crimes of
violent nature is now attributed to the Muslims. 🙄
Well, the police also have a hard time controlling fascists, hell's
angels, bandidos, the russian mob and a whole host of other despicably
violent spunkremains making roots in our otherwise peaceful nation.
This is a problem that transcends culture, race and religion. These kind
of warmongering, instigating fools exist in every group of people and we
really should put more resources into helping them build some real
character and intellect so that they may instead become valuable
members of our society instead of just infringing on it.
But I'm gonna say it again just so there can't be any mistaking my
position here. (HA!) I hardly think the issue is so simple that you can
blame only (and apparently all of) the muslims for the ridiculous growth
in violence the media keeps telling us is happening.
It's an absolutely infantile notion that I hope people at large are
intelligent enough to recognise for what it is, or this country really
is in trouble.
----
* And by laughable, I don't mean the apparent increase in crime and
rape, but how the people who put the page together wants to make us
believe that it's all due to the Muslim immigration, though if you look at
the real articles only a few of them openly accuse Muslims specifically,
and those accusations are rarely backed up by any facts. What can we
learn from that?