06 Sep 06
Originally posted by spruce112358I've never, ever, seen a union make a demand which was unreasonable.
Your post suggests that Mexicans should unionize to improve working conditions not revolt.
America should support this since a trend towards leveling of standards of living between the countries will make American workers more competitive and slow immigration which has led to tensions.
Some business leaders would frown of course since it would cut ...[text shortened]... nagment makes unions unecessary. Unions that make unreasonable demands will sink their own ship.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by RedmikeI don't work in a union shop, but I have a friend who does. There is significant protection for some workers who do very little. My friend picks up a lot of overtime because of these deadbeats, but the overall effect is that his company's position is less competitive than it could be.
I've never, ever, seen a union make a demand which was unreasonable.
I am not arguing on behalf of managment -- they are responsible for most of the screw-ups -- but I think unions can also improve.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by spruce112358Unions aren't there to help with a company's 'competitiveness'.
I don't work in a union shop, but I have a friend who does. There is significant protection for some workers who do very little. My friend picks up a lot of overtime because of these deadbeats, but the overall effect is that his company's position is less competitive than it could be.
I am not arguing on behalf of managment -- they are responsible for most of the screw-ups -- but I think unions can also improve.
Unionised workplaces are, in general, better paid and generally have better conditions.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by spruce112358I'm not saying unions should be opposed to making the enterprise competitive - just that it isn't their responsibility. They are responsible for preserving and improving the lot of their members.
Why not? If the company goes under, workers have to get work somewhere else -- who needs the hassle?
If the management can improve the competitiveness of the business without affecting the lot of their employees, then everyone's happy.
06 Sep 06
2 edits
Except for countries with low corruption levels and a culture
of solidarity (not contestant and polarized), I've never seen a union
do something that is useful and really in the benefit of everybody
[companies, workers & society in general]
Mexican unions, particularly, are either sold to corrupt business
owners or a rope in the neck of the company for the sake of
obtaining ilegitimate priviledges for their leaders.
Hell, Mexico's main workers' central had a 90+ year old
union leader since the 40's and the guy died zillionaire.
Unions are nor good or bad, just vehicles. Nothing works
in a corrupt country and such is the case of Mexico.
Edit. I still remember how my colleague at the law office dealt
with union leaders of our corporate clients: A weekend in Las Vegas
with lots of gambling, booze, girls and fun. The collective
agreement was signed without read in the plane back 😞
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by RedmikeCome to Australia and you will see plenty. Some of the construction unions are ridiculous over here. They grind public works down to a stand still even when they are getting paid over $90,000 (minimum) a year. Some of their demands are just so arrogant and over the top it is in-excusable.
I've never, ever, seen a union make a demand which was unreasonable.
06 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by EsotericSounds like Mexico.
Come to Australia and you will see plenty. Some of the construction unions are ridiculous over here. They grind public works down to a stand still even when they are getting paid over $90,000 (minimum) a year. Some of their demands are just so arrogant and over the top it is in-excusable.
Then again, that's how it is in the real world.
06 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by EsotericI guess we'd have to disagree about what was reasonable then.
Come to Australia and you will see plenty. Some of the construction unions are ridiculous over here. They grind public works down to a stand still even when they are getting paid over $90,000 (minimum) a year. Some of their demands are just so arrogant and over the top it is in-excusable.
I don't think anything you've described is unreasonable.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by RedmikeWith power comes responsibility. A union asserts its power over the firm -- quite effectively as you point out. Therefore the union should also assume a certain responsibility to keep the firm in business.
I'm not saying unions should be opposed to making the enterprise competitive - just that it isn't their responsibility. They are responsible for preserving and improving the lot of their members.
If the management can improve the competitiveness of the business without affecting the lot of their employees, then everyone's happy.
Power without responsibility is a formula for abuse.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by spruce112358The union would not exist if the firm responsibly took care of it's employees. Therefore the union does not have the responsibility to take care of the firm unless the firm begins to take care of the employees.
With power comes responsibility. A union asserts its power over the firm -- quite effectively as you point out. Therefore the union should also assume a certain responsibility to keep the firm in business.
Power without responsibility is a formula for abuse.
06 Sep 06
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThe employees will be hurt if the firm disappears. Therefore both have responsibility for both.
The union would not exist if the firm responsibly took care of it's employees. Therefore the union does not have the responsibility to take care of the firm unless the firm begins to take care of the employees.