22 Aug 09
Originally posted by whodeyYour "jokes" and your "serious points" are equally laughable. It's all an indistinguishable mush, I'm afraid. You are making a projection about what will happen if the U.S. provides a service to its own people that is already provided by pretty much all other developed nations' governments to their peoples. And yet, despite the fact that you cannot cite any instances of political repression of dissidents and opponents using medical records anywhere in the parts of the world I mentioned, you predict/fear its advent in the U.S. Is there some uniquely sinsister thing or proclivity toward tyranny in the American body politic and the psychology of the American citizenry that validates your paranoia? Do you have anything to offer at all? Why has what you fear never happened, not ever, anywhere? And what is about the U.S. that makes you think that it is vulnerable? Do you fear that the Democratic Party is going to target you - abusing your medical records to influence the medical treatment that you recieve - because you 'speak out' here at RHP? Or is it Senators and other Legislators that you think will be targetted? Or Birthers? Homophobes? Creationists? Gun owners? Do you think that the government is going to add fictitious diseases to your medical records? How do you envisage these threats being delivered? By text message? e-mail? Someone at your front door?
Once again my humor has failed you, so I will stop torturing you with it and spell out what I am trying to convey. You assume that if such occurences existed, that the media would either be willing or able to report these occurences, especially in light of the fact that many question the states influence in popular media to begin with.
My contention here ...[text shortened]... can occur to question the wisdom of its creation. Its just simply a scary peice of legislation.
22 Aug 09
Originally posted by AThousandYoungCan't you take a joke?? Geez Louise! I agree with you already, now relax and do some deep breathing or something!😏
Do you object to the title of the article itself, which is heavily biased to make the survey look like it had results that would make conservatives happy?
The same survey also reports most Americans - not excluding those who are "moderate" on the issue, but a clear majority - think Obama's doing a great job. Would you object to twisting the information by focussing only on that one point?
22 Aug 09
Originally posted by AThousandYoungwho cares?
[i]Americans who consider themselves conservatives [and not moderates] now outnumber Americans who consider themselves liberal [and not moderate] by almost two to one, according to a new poll by the Washington Post and ABC News.
In the poll of 1,001 adults conducted between July 15-18, respondents were asked: "Would you say your views on most poli ...[text shortened]... oom.com/nation/poll-conservatives-now-outnumber-liberals-almost-two-to-one-in-america
😀
23 Aug 09
Originally posted by AThousandYoungIt is fascinating.
[i]Americans who consider themselves conservatives [and not moderates] now outnumber Americans who consider themselves liberal [and not moderate] by almost two to one, according to a new poll by the Washington Post and ABC News.
In the poll of 1,001 adults conducted between July 15-18, respondents were asked: "Would you say your views on most poli ...[text shortened]... oom.com/nation/poll-conservatives-now-outnumber-liberals-almost-two-to-one-in-america
😀
After the 2006 sweep of Congress, Barack Obama winning the Presidency, Bush's approval ratings dipping into the 20s, scandal after scandal in the GOP, "liberal" is still a borderline dirty word in American politics.
I guess it just is what it is. The US is a right leaning country, and all the Keith Olbermanns and Michael Moores in the World are not going to change that.
23 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76Actually I think you have it wrong.
It is fascinating.
After the 2006 sweep of Congress, Barack Obama winning the Presidency, Bush's approval ratings dipping into the 20s, scandal after scandal in the GOP, "liberal" is still a borderline dirty word in American politics.
I guess it just is what it is. The US is a right leaning country, and all the Keith Olbermanns and Michael Moores in the World are not going to change that.
The FAR right outnumbers the FAR left by a 2-1 factor, which is huge.
However; with Party Identification the Democrats still have a solid lead over Republicans. I think it's reasonable to assume Democrats tend to be left of center and Republicans right of center.
Now throw the *FAR* leaning voters out of the equation (of which Conservatives double Liberals). You're left with moderates, correct? Those who are left over *must* be center left because even with a huge disadvantage with far leaning voters, Democrats still have a decisive lead.
23 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperExactly. My whole point was that even most Democrats (or even many Democrats) will not identify themselves as "liberal," whereas more Republicans are comfortable identifying themselves as "conservative."
Actually I think you have it wrong.
The FAR right outnumbers the FAR left by a 2-1 factor, which is huge.
However; with Party Identification the Democrats still have a solid lead over Republicans. I think it's reasonable to assume Democrats tend to be left of center and Republicans right of center.
Now throw the *FAR* leaning vot e even with a huge disadvantage with far leaning voters, Democrats still have a decisive lead.
Also, I think the Democratic party is more centrist, on the whole, than the Republican party. I think that if the GOP and the Dems were equidistant from true center, the Dems would never win a Presidential election and would max out at maybe 35-40% of Congress.
I'm sure KN will agree with me, since he sees the Democrats are being right of center themselves. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I think the Dems need to be fundamentally centrist to be relevant; and so they are.
23 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76I see it two ways.
Exactly. My whole point was that even most Democrats (or even many Democrats) will not identify themselves as "liberal," whereas more Republicans are comfortable identifying themselves as "conservative."
Also, I think the Democratic party is more centrist, on the whole, than the Republican party. I think that if the GOP and the Dems were equidistant from tru t, but I think the Dems need to be fundamentally centrist to be relevant; and so they are.
The Republicans have done a great job smearing the name, "Liberal." That being said, I believe most of the country is socially liberal, which in itself is a bit ironic.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Republicans appealed more to moderates. On one hand I think it would give them more credibility with the center. On the other hand, using the extreme wingnut politicians and pundits they are VERY successful at pushing lies and fears, which unfortunately is quite effective.
45% of Americans believe the "death panels" lie
55% of Americans believe the lie that HR3200 would cover illegal aliens
A huge percentage of Californians were fooled into believing that failing to pass Prop 8 (The constitutional BAN on gay marriage) would force churches to marry gays, among other lies.
23 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperWhere do those numbers come from?
I see it two ways.
The Republicans have done a great job smearing the name, "Liberal." That being said, I believe most of the country is socially liberal, which in itself is a bit ironic.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Republicans appealed more to moderates. On one hand I think it would give them more credibility wi he constitutional BAN on gay marriage) would force churches to marry gays, among other lies.
I will grant that, if true, those numbers are alarming.
Oh; and I'd like to see more than one poll regarding those issues. Or, at least, I'd like to see a poll from an organization with a track record, like Rasmussen or AP.
Not sure I agree on the social liberals issue; although, of course, it depends on how you define it.
23 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76I'm going to burn a smoke and the go pull them up for you. Yes, they ARE alarming. I would say the fact that Americans are so easy to fool is a threat to democracy.
Where do those numbers come from?
I will grant that, if true, those numbers are alarming.
Oh; and I'd like to see more than one poll regarding those issues. Or, at least, I'd like to see a poll from an organization with a track record, like Rasmussen or AP.
Not sure I agree on the social liberals issue; although, of course, it depends on how you define it.
23 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76I've found a number sources *citing* the ABC Poll, but I'm having a hard time finding the poll itself.
Where do those numbers come from?
I will grant that, if true, those numbers are alarming.
Oh; and I'd like to see more than one poll regarding those issues. Or, at least, I'd like to see a poll from an organization with a track record, like Rasmussen or AP.
Not sure I agree on the social liberals issue; although, of course, it depends on how you define it.
ABC News polls are considered reputable, as they use scientific methods just as Gallup and Pew use. It's NOT the non-scientific polling done by the talk show hosts "Text XXXX with your answer"
I wish they had a site where you can just look at their polling data.
23 Aug 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperWell, Rasmussen doesn't poll that sort of question. I'd also like to see how the question was worded. For example, did they ask:
I've found a number sources *citing* the ABC Poll, but I'm having a hard time finding the poll itself.
ABC News polls are considered reputable, as they use scientific methods just as Gallup and Pew use. It's NOT the non-scientific polling done by the talk show hosts "Text XXXX with your answer"
I wish they had a site where you can just look at their polling data.
"Do you think the healthcare bill will force the US to pay for illegal immigrants' care?"
or did they ask
"Do you think some illegal immigrants may benefit from the healthcare bill?"
In any case, Rasmussen did quite a bit of polling on the healthcare bill this week; and the results were not great news for the President.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/weekly_updates/what_they_told_us_reviewing_last_week_s_key_polls