17 Jul 10
Originally posted by Hugh GlassI suppose the way to determine whether a political enterprise is "off course" is to look at the course it actually set itself and that was endorsed at the ballot box. How is Obama doing - not in the view of the U.K.'s Daily Telegraph - but when measured against the specific content of his election manifesto?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7893777/David-Cameron-dont-follow-Barack-Obama.html
Much has already been said about his first year in office being a flop,
agree, or disagree?
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by FMFSuch as transparency?
I suppose the way to determine whether a political enterprise is "off course" is to look at the course it actually set itself and that was endorsed at the ballot box. How is Obama doing - not in the view of the U.K.'s Daily Telegraph - but when measured against the specific content of his election manifesto?
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonWell transparency and political reality are often pretty incompatible when push comes to shove. There's hardly a political battlefield in the world that doesn't illustrate this. But Obama does have questions to answer on that front, I have no doubt.
Such as transparency?
I was thinking more of specifics. I remember USArmyParatrooper coming up with an exhaustive list of specific, detailed promises and undertakings, and the number that Obama had indeed come through on - and was fairly impressive - or at least more or less on course.
Getting some kind of health reform passed, when everyone was saying it was dead in the water only a few months before, was quite a feat of retail politics and provides Obama with a 'big thing' that he can point to.
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by FMFYes. Even though the overwhelming majority of Americans was/is against it and were and still are in the dark about what it all entails he did get it done on his watch thanks To Nancy Pelosi.
Well transparency and political reality are often pretty incompatible when push comes to shove. There's hardly a political battlefield in the world that doesn't illustrate this. But Obama does have questions to answer on that front, I have no doubt.
I was thinking more of specifics. I remember USArmyParatrooper coming up with an exhaustive list of specific, ...[text shortened]... quite a feat of retail politics and provides Obama with a 'big thing' that he can point to.
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonWell, intellectually speaking, you cannot measure whether a political programme is on course or off course in terms of the dismay and anger of the programme's opponents. If anything, anecdotally - but not very scientifically - the bitterness and frustration of people who do not like Obama might be some indication that he is on the course he set himself and that he got elected on - which would explain the bitterness. And the frustration.
Yes. Even though the overwhelming majority of Americans was/is against it and were and still are in the dark about what it all entails he did get it done on his watch thanks To Nancy Pelosi.
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by Hugh GlassA lot of liberals, progressives and people generally on the left of the political spectrum, who presumably voted for him, have quite clearly been disappointed with the relatively centrist course he has charted. To them, I imagine Obama seems "off course", and maybe even "terribly" so.
Much has already been said about his first year in office being a flop,
agree, or disagree?
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by FMF".... might be some indication that he is on the course he set himself and that he got elected on"-fmf
Well, intellectually speaking, you cannot measure whether a political programme is on course or off course in terms of the dismay and anger of the programme's opponents. If anything, anecdotally - but not very scientifically - the bitterness and frustration of people who do not like Obama might be some indication that he is on the course he set himself and that he got elected on - which would explain the bitterness. And the frustration.
I agree w/part of that. He is on the course he has set for himself but not really what he got elected on
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by FMFTrue,but the independent/centrist vote got him elected. What explains their disapproval if he is so "centrist"?
A lot of liberals, progressives and people generally on the left of the political spectrum, who presumably voted for him, have quite clearly been disappointed with the relatively centrist course he has charted. To them, I imagine Obama seems "off course", and maybe even "terribly" so.
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonWell, in so much as he still has some approval, I suppose it is more or less from the centre and centre-left. He is under attack from the right and the left. Clearly.
True,but the independent/centrist vote got him elected. What explains their disapproval if he is so "centrist"?
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonwell, rather abstract things like "transparency" and "no pork-barrel stuff" and "I'm not a Washington insider" aside - which were unrealistic idealistic promises, as every political observer knew, knows and has always known - what about specifics? What about detailed policies? Nitty gritty stuff. What about proposals he made (what he got elected on) and the proposals he has turned into policies (the course he set for himself)? What are the specific gaps and discrepencies you see?
He is on the course he has set for himself but not really what he got elected on
17 Jul 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonRHP centrists (more or less) like sh76 and Melanerpes don't seem overly dismayed, angry, bitter and frustrated. I'd venture to bet that they see Obama as pretty much on course, even if not always delivering or saying exactly what they want. No doubt they will set me straight if I've got it wrong.
True,but the independent/centrist vote got him elected. What explains their disapproval if he is so "centrist"?