@shavixmir saidI'm not sure if you have me confused with another poster, but I've never made any Biblical argument of any sort. I think "the Bible says so" is a particularly weak argument for anything.
The grand children of the displaced people are still living in refugee camps. Where else do you think they fukking belong? Some other country rather than where they lived? Don't be insane. Just because you want biblical Israel to be a monotonous ethnic hell hole.
So, it's fine for paintings to be returned, but humans not?
Do you even hear what you're saying yourself?
They "belong" where they are. They can build big, beautiful peaceful cities. Gaza sits on a natural aquifer and has an offshore natural gas field with enough natural gas to supply the Palestinian territories and still have a surplus for export.
Gaza City could be Dubai. But instead, they've chosen to be Darfur.
@sh76 saidYour arguments about Egypt not investing in Gaza; “another country should be responsible for investing in a refugee camp set-up) is just as silly as the biblical argument.
I'm not sure if you have me confused with another poster, but I've never made any Biblical argument of any sort. I think "the Bible says so" is a particularly weak argument for anything.
They "belong" where they are. They can build big, beautiful peaceful cities. Gaza sits on a natural aquifer and has an offshore natural gas field with enough natural gas to supply the Palesti ...[text shortened]... ll have a surplus for export.
Gaza City could be Dubai. But instead, they've chosen to be Darfur.
To think the Palestinians have much say in the matter is madness. 2 million plus people living in a tiny area, lots of which is desert, lots of which is basically a refugee camp... They don't have access to anything. Only that which Israel allows them to have.
Go there. Smell it for yourself.
@rajk999 saidYou are aware that about 75% of the non-Jewish population were forced out of the area conquered by the Zionists in 1948? And that Israel quickly passed laws denying them the ability to return and seizing their property? https://imeu.org/article/quick-facts-the-palestinian-nakba
That makes no sense. There are about 2,000,000 Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, happily, with a decent standard of living for both them and their kids. Israel has nothing against peaceful Paletinians and have no intention of moving them. The terrorists in Gaza will have to be forcibly removed.
30 Oct 23
@sh76 said" Gaza sits on a natural aquifer and has an offshore natural gas field with enough natural gas to supply the Palestinian territories and still have a surplus for export."
I'm not sure if you have me confused with another poster, but I've never made any Biblical argument of any sort. I think "the Bible says so" is a particularly weak argument for anything.
They "belong" where they are. They can build big, beautiful peaceful cities. Gaza sits on a natural aquifer and has an offshore natural gas field with enough natural gas to supply the Palesti ...[text shortened]... ll have a surplus for export.
Gaza City could be Dubai. But instead, they've chosen to be Darfur.
Now you know why Israel wants Gaza so badly. This is just like putting Indians on reservations in the USA and finding out the land has great value afterwards. The Black Hills had gold in them and the Indians had to be relocated from there too.
@metal-brain saidThe natural gas was discovered in 2000. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2006. Israel could have drilled this field any time and has not done so.
" Gaza sits on a natural aquifer and has an offshore natural gas field with enough natural gas to supply the Palestinian territories and still have a surplus for export."
Now you know why Israel wants Gaza so badly. This is just like putting Indians on reservations in the USA and finding out the land has great value afterwards. The Black Hills had gold in them and the Indians had to be relocated from there too.
Israel has the most advanced desalination infrastructure per capita in the world (by far).
And suddenly Israel is interested in conquering Gaza to take its gas and water?
Well, it's a theory.
30 Oct 23
"When a real and final catastrophe should befall us in Palestine the first responsible would be the British and the second responsible for it the Terrorist organizations built up from our own ranks.
I am not willing to see anybody associated with those misled and criminal people."
- Albert Einstein, 10 April 1948
https://archive.org/details/einstein-2
30 Oct 23
@sh76 saidThat logic says they should take everything they can because their grandchildren won’t get blamed for it
Another double standard.
Just answer this:
Am I entitled to re-claim my grandfather's apartment in Berlin? How about my great grandparents' houses? Sure, they don't need it anymore since they were gassed as Auschwitz, but neither do the people displaced from Ashkelon. They're dead too. It's their grandchildren ho are talking about the "return."
Stuff happened in the pa ...[text shortened]... t?
If history did work like that, something tells me we'd do better on the whole than break even.
30 Oct 23
@athousandyoung saidIn what other context do we punish grandchildren for the actions of their grandparents?
That logic says they should take everything they can because their grandchildren won’t get blamed for it
@sh76 saidHere you can see that a man was able to take his great-uncle's stolen paintings from "unscrupulous" dealers or the people who bought them - not from the Nazis who stole them.
In what other context do we punish grandchildren for the actions of their grandparents?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/holocaust-survivor-david-toren-reclaimed-nazi-looted-artwork-dying-covid-n1207646
Within a year, Toren would be smuggled out in a series of rescues for Jewish children organized by several European countries. Left behind, his family would perish in the death camps and their vast art collection would be seized by Nazis and later traded by unscrupulous dealers.
Peter Toren said his father spent his final years pursuing the art collection his family lost in the war.
He had sued the government of Germany for his great-uncle’s collection and in 2015, after a lengthy saga, recovered the Max Liebermann work “Two Riders on the Beach” that so moved him in his youth.
30 Oct 23
@sh76 saidHere you can see indigenous Americans getting land that was stolen from their ancestors a century and a half ago.
In what other context do we punish grandchildren for the actions of their grandparents?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/25/us/indigenous-people-reclaiming-their-lands-trnd
For thousands of years, the Wiyot people were the stewards of Duluwat Island, situated in the marshes and estuaries of what’s now Humboldt Bay along California’s northern coast. Then in 1860, a group of White settlers interrupted the tribe’s annual world renewal ceremony and massacred scores of Wiyot women, children and elders.
In the years since, the island had been transformed into a shipyard. By 1990, it lay vacant, scattered with scrap metal and contaminated with toxic chemicals.
Last year, the Wiyot had reclaimed almost all of Duluwat Island – the culmination of decades of efforts to get back their ancestral land.
When 1.5 acres on the island went up for sale, the tribe raised $106,000 to buy it back in 2000. A few years later, the city of Eureka agreed to give them back about 40 more acres. Then in 2015, the Eureka City Council voted to return the remaining 200 acres the city owned on the island, a commitment it made official last year.
The return of Duluwat Island is perhaps the first time that a US municipality repatriated land to an indigenous tribe without strings attached.
@sh76 saidHamas controls Gaza. Does Israel own Gaza?
The natural gas was discovered in 2000. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2006. Israel could have drilled this field any time and has not done so.
Israel has the most advanced desalination infrastructure per capita in the world (by far).
And suddenly Israel is interested in conquering Gaza to take its gas and water?
Well, it's a theory.
Most Palestinians who live in Gaza are refugees. Many of them or their families were forcibly displaced during what Palestinians call the "Nakba," or "catastrophe," in the events that led to the establishment of Israel in 1948.
In other words, the Zionists stole their land and kicked them out. People tend to harbor resentment toward land thieves. Thou shalt not steal. That is Hebrew religious law, isn't it? Is it prophesy that Jews violate their own religious laws to fulfill that prophesy or is the prophesy supposed to happen without land theft?
Hypothetically lets say it is fate that Jews return to their homeland and it is god's will. If that is supposed to happen in the year 2112 peacefully by legal transaction what would happen if some Zionist zealots tried to rush the process? Fate would resist their efforts, right? It cannot happen before 2112. You cannot rush fate. Guess what happens when people try.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-gas-oil-and-trouble-in-the-levant/5362955
@sh76 saidIn November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA. Even in towns and villages which are connected to the water network, the taps often run dry.
===We’re talking about displaced people still living in refugee camps.===
No, you're not. You're talking about the grandchildren of the displaced people.
That the Arab world and its millions of square miles of open land and enormous oil revenue, has shunned the "refugees" so badly that they're still living in "refugee" camps two generations later is unfortunate, but not Is ...[text shortened]... alestinians have to be willing to give up on "from the River to the Sea" which they plainly are not.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
Israel controls all access in and out of the Gaza Strip, using that control to restrict the supplies, humanitarian aid, and even the electricity that goes into Gaza. This has created an energy crisis in Gaza, where 2 million Palestinians live without reliable access to the resources they need.
https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/electricity-in-gaza.html
03 Nov 23
@metal-brain saidThats not important. What is important is that they have lots of rockets.
In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to o ...[text shortened]... he resources they need.
https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/electricity-in-gaza.html