Debates
26 Jan 11
26 Jan 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIt isn't "a lot" no matter how you try to spin it. And it's even lower among the groups who were actually demonstrating.
13% doesn't seem like a lot, but if you take into account internet cafés and people who use the computers of friends or family, a large percentage of the (urban) population has access to computers.
26 Jan 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraFacebook is my hero; wasn't that their execs getting shot at by Tunisian troops?
Here's an article about the role of Facebook in the Tunisian crisis:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/01/the-inside-story-of-how-facebook-responded-to-tunisian-hacks/70044/
There were hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in Tunisia. In the entire country, there are only 28,000 Facebook accounts. http://www.menassat.com/?q=alerts%2F4504-tunisia-facebook-blocked
Do the math. The Western elite spin that this was some kind of Nerd/Geek Rebellion that overthrew a dictatorship is a laugh. The working class were sick of high unemployment, rising food prices and corruption and took to the streets. They managed to do this in 1792 too even without Social Networking.
27 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderNo doubt the role of social media is exaggerated, although one story goes that a Wikileaks cable detailing said corruption helped stoke the fires. That story rapidly did the rounds via the electronic media (which includes mobile phones. "Looters sick of the family's nepotism filmed themselves on mobile phones destroying the family's expensive cars at one of their villas and riding motorbikes across the manicured laws." [Love that Daily Mail typo]."
The Western elite spin that this was some kind of Nerd/Geek Rebellion that overthrew a dictatorship is a laugh. The working class were sick of high unemployment, rising food prices and corruption and took to the streets. They managed to do this in 1792 too even without Social Networking.
As to who took part, the man who set fire to himself was an unemployed student; days after that attempt, "students, teachers, lawyers, journalists, human rights activists, trade unionists, and opposition politicians took to the streets in several cities, including Tunis, to condemn the government's economic policies, its repression of all critics, and a mafia-style corruption that enriches members of the president's family." http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/02/tunisia_s_protest_wave_where_it_comes_from_and_what_it_means_for_ben_ali
That article goes into the economic background in some depth; this bit about the role of trade unions (rwingett, are you there) is worth quoting at length:
The trade unions' role is one of the most striking aspects of the December protests. The government worked very hard, and with great success, to domesticate the Tunisian General Labour Union (UGTT), Tunisia's sole trade union confederation, in the 1990s. More recently, however, activists in some unions have succeeded in taking a more independent and confrontational stance. In 2008 and again in early 2010, union activists organized prolonged protests in the southern Gafsa mining basin. The players and the grievances in those cases resemble what we saw in late December. Education unions, some of the most independent and aggressive within the UGTT, played a critical role in organizing unemployed workers, many with university degrees, who protested the government's failure to provide jobs, its corruption, and its refusal to engage in meaningful dialogue. Human rights organizations, journalists, lawyers, and opposition parties then joined in to criticize the government's restrictions on media coverage of the protests and the arrests and torture of demonstrators. In this way, a broad coalition of civil society organizations has connected bread-and-butter employment grievances with fundamental human rights and rule-of-law concerns. They also pull together constituencies that transcend class and regional distinctions -- unemployed young people in Sidi Bouzid, Menzel Bouzaiene, and Regueb, and lawyers and journalists in Monastir, Sfax, and Tunis.
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by no1marauderThe unrest was caused by unhappiness over unemployment, corruption and food prices. But modern communication did help spread the protests, although we will never know if Ben Ali would have been toppled without any internet access. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
Facebook is my hero; wasn't that their execs getting shot at by Tunisian troops?
There were hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in Tunisia. In the entire country, there are only 28,000 Facebook accounts. http://www.menassat.com/?q=alerts%2F4504-tunisia-facebook-blocked
Do the math. The Western elite spin that t ...[text shortened]... on and took to the streets. They managed to do this in 1792 too even without Social Networking.
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorrano1's too busy putting on his red cap, pantaloons and clogs to listen.
The unrest was caused by unhappiness over unemployment, corruption and food prices. But modern communication did help spread the protests, although we will never know if Ben Ali would have been toppled without any internet access. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraProbably because he misread you're first post and thought you meant people were protesting because they were rich. Since then you have become the enemy and No1 doesn't debate with the enemy he merely insults them.
The unrest was caused by unhappiness over unemployment, corruption and food prices. But modern communication did help spread the protests, although we will never know if Ben Ali would have been toppled without any internet access. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
Personally I don't think you're too far off.
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by BartsI misread nothing; KN's post said that rising wealth was a factor in the dissatisfaction with dictatorship. This is nonsensical (as he subsequently conceded).
Probably because he misread you're first post and thought you meant people were protesting because they were rich. Since then you have become the enemy and No1 doesn't debate with the enemy he merely insults them.
Personally I don't think you're too far off.
Of course, modern communication means spread news faster; who's arguing with that? But the implied idea that the tiny proportion of people in Tunisia with Facebook accounts were the heroes and organizers of the uprising and that it wouldn't have happened without them is rubbish.
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by no1marauderSo far you're the only one to have interpreted that post in such a way.
I misread nothing; KN's post said that rising wealth was a factor in the dissatisfaction with dictatorship. This is nonsensical (as he subsequently conceded).
Of course, modern communication means spread news faster; who's arguing with that? But the implied idea that the tiny proportion of people in Tunisia with Facebook accounts were the ...[text shortened]... es and organizers of the uprising and that it wouldn't have happened without them is rubbish.
27 Jan 11
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_egypt_protest
Security forces shot dead a Bedouin protester in the north of Egypt's Sinai region on Thursday, bringing the death toll to five on the third day of protests inspired by unrest which toppled Tunisia's president earlier this month.
In a sign open defiance against authoritarian rulers was spreading, police also clashed with protesters in the Arabian Peninsula state of Yemen and Gabon in West Africa.
Police in Suez fired rubber bullets, water cannon and tear gas at hundreds of demonstrators calling for an end to Mubarak's 30-year-old rule. Protesters chucked rocks and petrol bombs at police lines.
Hundreds of protesters clashed with police in Ismailia, who dispersed the crowds with tear gas, while support spread for a planned wave of protests on Friday initiated on Facebook.
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Sublime's April 26, 1992 with Rodney King riot footage, may be a few "bad" words etc.
27 Jan 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraHow else can the statement:
So far you're the only one to have interpreted that post in such a way.
KN: Increased wealth and communication makes it much harder for dictators to keep their populations under control.
(Emphasis supplied)
be interpreted reasonably? That others didn't pay close attention to it proves only that they are more careless than I am.