O' Reilly: We don't owe homeless vets anythin...

Originally posted by Badwater
That would be the preferable solution. The idiots in power, however, seem to think it's ok to toss boys out in front of bullets and then when they get hit you hang them out to dry.

I'm a pacifist, through and through; however, if you're going to ask people to do your soldiering for you then you do owe them for their service. To not support those that ser ...[text shortened]... nt and disgraceful and anyone that feels otherwise is too stupid to hang their head in shame.

Me too. I hate war. Why don't you tell that to the leftists and islamofacists who start all the wars. And if you come back with your head still attached to your neck, consider yourself lucky!

Originally posted by Fine Reuben
I hate war. Why don't you tell that to the leftists and islamofacists who start all the wars.

Thanks for the O'Reilly pastiche. Yeah? Right?

All the wars?

What about nationalists, imperialists, militarists, rebellious colonials, expansionists, mercantilists, crusaders, Zionists, Arab nationalists, regimes lacking in natural resources, regimes seeking domestic distractions, regimes protecting homegrown corporate interests overseas, the list goes on.

When Georgia started that brief war earlier this year, was it being "leftist" or was it being "islamofacist"? Was the U.S.A. being "leftist" or was it being "islamofacist" when it invaded Iraq?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Thanks for the O'Reilly pastiche. Yeah? Right?

O'Reilly pastiche? My aren't we clever?
Pakistan, Palestine, Sudan, Indonesia, Bosnia, Chechnia, Sri Lanka,Afganistan, Iraq. What's the common thread? They're not Mormons. But you can go ahead bury your head in the sand, if it makes you feel better. By the way, I never watch O'Reilly.

Originally posted by Fine Reuben
O'Reilly pastiche? My aren't we clever?
Pakistan, Palestine, Sudan, Indonesia, Bosnia, Chechnia, Sri Lanka,Afganistan, Iraq. What's the common thread? They're not Mormons. But you can go ahead bury your head in the sand, if it makes you feel better. By the way, I never watch O'Reilly.

Me clever? Not really. My point was how dense and tabloid you sounded.

All wars started by leftists and "islamofacists"? You could scarcely be more ahistorical - although I am well aware it's merely in service of your bigotry.

What about wars started by nationalists, imperialists, militarists, rebellious colonials, expansionists, mercantilists, crusaders, Zionists, Arab nationalists, regimes lacking in natural resources, regimes seeking domestic distractions, regimes protecting homegrown corporate interests overseas, to name but a few? Your list is highly selective and thus makes a mockery of your initial witless post.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
O'Reilly has no compassion for veterans, the homeless, or anyone else. This is the man who said that the kid who was kidnapped and held for over 8 YEARS looked like he was enjoying himself, skipping school and playing video games. Can you BE a more callous a$$hole?

Compassion is a good thing, but it is something exercised individually. True compassion isn't displayed by doing good deeds with other people's money.

In the early days of the US Congress, Congressman Crockett argued against assisting the widow of a retired general, just as most of his colleagues were in favor of granting the aid, due the widow's need. Crockett reminded his colleagues that the general had been paid according the agreed schedule, and the government had no outstanding debt to him. Despite the widow's need, Crockett argued it was not Constitutional for the US Congress to spend taxpayer's money on good deeds toward one citizen that it did not extend to all others. The measure was voted down in the subsequent role call. This was generally accepted to be the Constitutional norm for the first hundred years of US government. It was a principle first articulated by James Madison, explaining the general welfare clause.

I empathize with veterans experiencing problems, especially if the problems relate to service related illness or injury, mental or physical. On the other hand, there are plenty of people in this country in dire situations for any variety of reasons. Is it rational, practical, or even possible to make things right for all of them? This is complicated by the fact that most people with difficulties have some personal responsibility for their situation, which may have compounded difficulties.

As a nation, we ought to pay those who serve something special. A good start is better pay, benefits and housing. The GI bill provides for many veterans benefits not available to non vets, including medical and mental care. And most recruiting contracts contain special educational benefits.

As a people, we do so via our elected representatives in Congress, hopefully mindful of the Constitutional limitations on Congressional spending.

It isn't as simple as O'Reilley is a troll, or Republicans are lacking compassion. Is it compassionate to cut the military budget, so that troops go into battle ill equipped? I can remember during the Clinton administration a contingent of marines was deployed to Haiti, for armed conflict without ammunition. We sent unarmoured Humvees to Iraq, under the Bush administration. And the VA is sometimes a bad joke. I believe properly equipping our military takes priority over attempting to make everything right afterwards.

As an aside, do Americans want the same Federal government that runs the VA, running the rest of our health care system?

Originally posted by FMF
Me clever? Not really. My point was how dense and tabloid you sounded.

All wars started by leftists and "islamofacists"? You could scarcely be more ahistorical - although I am well aware it's merely in service of your bigotry.

What about wars started by nationalists, imperialists, militarists, rebellious colonials, expansionists, mercantilists, crusaders, ...[text shortened]... t a few? Your list is highly selective and thus makes a mockery of your initial witless post.

As you artistically enumerated there are no shortages of warmongers or reasons for warmongering, and probably there never will be.

Leftists and Islamofascist may account for most of the last century, but it that's just very recent.

At last we agree on something.

Do we owe veterans more than other citizens? Can society fix all of the problems of any group? Veterans, the poor, the uneducated, racial minorities, and have such attempts been successful?

For Americans are such attempts Constitutional?

Originally posted by normbenign
For Americans are such attempts Constitutional?

Well if your Constitution doesn't protect - or doesn't allow you to decide to protect - your veterans, the poor, the uneducated, racial minorities, and so on, then maybe it's nothing more than a piece of paper, like your President once said. And maybe there is no such thing as society, like a British Prime Minister once said. Maybe tax is not the price of civilization, maybe it is "theft" instead. And maybe Barack Obama is a kindred spirit of the NAZIS. Who knows? Maybe for Americans, your Constitution serves to protect you from people with your mindmap. One wonders what your country would be like if people like you got the government of your dreams and it had long enough to establish the body politic and society you pine for. There'd be the stench of corpses in the streets I suppose. And barbed wire everywhere. What else?

Originally posted by normbenign
Compassion is a good thing, but it is something exercised individually. True compassion isn't displayed by doing good deeds with other people's money.

Inspired leadership, great governance and a grand society is not something you can bankroll with the blood of your nation's socio-economically depressed either.