Obama and Rev.Wright

Originally posted by FMF
Does "God" bless all other countries too, according to your mental map?

that is not the point and is a loaded question.

Originally posted by FMF
Being proud of personal achievements makes sense. But not just one's geography. Turns 'pride' into a volatile, potentially evil, thing.

Proud of geography? Am I proud of the hills that surround me? No, I am proud of the Constitution and the freedoms it gives men from other men. I am proud of those who died to secure freedom for the likes of me. I am proud of those who have contributed to a society that has stood as a beckon of freedom from HItler through the times of Stalin. Of course, you know this, the only question is why you play these games?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
that is not the point and is a loaded question.

So what is the point? What parts of the world does God bless?

Originally posted by whodey
Proud of geography? Am I proud of the hills that surround me? No, I am proud of the Constitution and the freedoms it gives men from other men. I am proud of those who died to secure freedom for the likes of me. Of course, you know this, the only question is why you play these games?

What was your role in the creation of the constitution?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
What was your role in the creation of the constitution?

Must I have a role to be proud of my forefathers? Must I even be related to them? In fact, I am proud of anyone throughout history that stands up to tyranny and injustice, no matter the cost. And trust me, these men paid dearly.

Originally posted by whodey
Proud of geography? Am I proud of the hills that surround me? No, I am proud of the Constitution and the freedoms it gives men from other men. I am proud of those who died to secure freedom for the likes of me. I am proud of those who have contributed to a society that has stood as a beckon of freedom from HItler through the times of Stalin. Of course, you know this, the only question is why you play these games?

What were you a beacon of when 3,000,000 Vietnamese died because the U.S.A. didn't want them to hold elections? What were you a beacon of when your man in Indonesia, General Soeharto, slaughtered maybe 2,000,000 opponents and potential business rivals in six months Oct 65-April 66? What were you a beacon of in South America when it was infested with juntas and dictators on your payroll? Enough with the duckspeak, whodey. Some of us actually live out here in this world where your "beacons" have burned brightly over mass graves and suffocating state sponsored fear.

Originally posted by whodey
In fact, I am proud of anyone throughout history that stands up to tyranny and injustice, no matter the cost. And trust me, these men paid dearly.

The vast majority of them in foreign countries. People whose desire for autonomy stood in your way.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
that is not the point and is a loaded question.

It is a relevant point. And it isn't a loaded question.

Does "God" bless all other countries too, and not just America, according to you?

Originally posted by whodey
Must I have a role to be proud of my forefathers? Must I even be related to them? In fact, I am proud of anyone throughout history that stands up to tyranny and injustice, no matter the cost. And trust me, these men paid dearly.

Are you proud of the people who stormed the Bastille?
How about William of Orange?
Are you proud of the PLO? Nelson Mandela? Gandhi?

Originally posted by FMF
What were you a beacon of when 3,000,000 Vietnamese died because the U.S.A. didn't want them to hold elections? What were you a beacon of when your man in Indonesia, General Soeharto, slaughtered maybe 2,000,000 opponents and potential business rivals in six months Oct 65-April 66? What were you a beacon of in South America when it was infested with juntas and d ...[text shortened]... re your "beacons" have burned brightly over mass graves and suffocating state sponsored fear.

I am not proud of those things. In fact, I am not proud of the current government. However, I am proud of the beginnings of this country and would like to see a return to these values. So I suppose I remain patriotic in that since only. As for feeling patrioitic to the clowns that are in there now, not so much.

Originally posted by whodey
Must I have a role to be proud of my forefathers? Must I even be related to them? In fact, I am proud of anyone throughout history that stands up to tyranny and injustice, no matter the cost. And trust me, these men paid dearly.

look where they are from whodey,they dont get and never will.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Are you proud of the people who stormed the Bastille?
How about William of Orange?
Are you proud of the PLO? Nelson Mandela? Gandhi?

Out of that list, I would probably say I am proud of Nelson Mandela and Ghandi. Of course, my hero of hero's is Christ. Why did you leave him out I wonder? The previous two simply followed his lead.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
look where they are from whodey,they dont get and never will.

They get it, they just don't believe. That is why our beliefs are the most important aspects to our existence. They shape and form how we process what goes on around us. As for how to change a persons beliefs, that is the million dollar question!!

Originally posted by utherpendragon
look where they are from whodey,they dont get and never will.

Hey, we've had LOADS of Americanism out here. Plenty of us know EXACTLY what it's all about. As opposed to the hunter-gatherer-ancestor-worship 'patriot' trite-trash that fuels your bristling meanspiritedness for seemingly all and everything - all wrapped up, ironically, in alleged 'optimism' and 'freedom of speech & thought' - and yet always carping carping carping, loathing your president, loathing your compatriots, loathing anything and everything - about your own country - that isn't exactly how you want it.

Originally posted by whodey
Out of that list, I would probably say I am proud of Nelson Mandela and Ghandi. Of course, my hero of hero's is Christ. Why did you leave him out I wonder? The previous two simply followed his lead.

So what is the meaning of "being proud of America" if you now claim that you are simply proud of anyone who has done good things in your view?